Aerial rescue debate

[Mr Oz]

Hi guys this is my first post on here so go easy on me:biggrin:

i work for local housing company and have been doing tree work now nearly 2 years.as you all aware there are a lot of HS policies and prosedurers involve in tree work.basically my aerial rescue guy got pulled in office and had to give statement because of somone seen him leaving the garden where we were working and standing in front garden while i was on a tree so i got pulled in to give statement and tell them what i think about the subject and they were worried because he wasnt there at all time while i was on a tree.is that a fair judgement do you think for him to be pulled just because he left the site for a short period of time ,whats you views on the subject

[tarzan]

If you 2nd man has eyes and ear view on you then its ok. When my team are on a busy job were theres loads of joe public then the rigging man ( bely man) 2nd climber will have his harness on. And stays at the base of the tree logging and tending to the ropes...

 

 

Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.

[Arran Turner]

How big is your team/ what type of tree work was you doing/ what were your targets? ie public, vehicles etc etc ?

[sean]

pretty much all domestic two man jobs will involve the groundy taking brash to the chipper parked at the front......the key is dont dawdle...get out and get back in again.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hi guys this is my first post on here so go easy on me:biggrin:

i work for local housing company and have been doing tree work now nearly 2 years.as you all aware there are a lot of HS policies and prosedurers involve in tree work.basically my aerial rescue guy got pulled in office and had to give statement because of somone seen him leaving the garden where we were working and standing in front garden while i was on a tree so i got pulled in to give statement and tell them what i think about the subject and they were worried because he wasnt there at all time while i was on a tree.is that a fair judgement do you think for him to be pulled just because he left the site for a short period of time ,whats you views on the subject

 

Whether the 'aerial rescue' arrangements were deemed adequate will depend on a number of factors...and in all honesty only really stand up when/if tested.

 

The size of the tree, the complexity of the job, the area of the crown you were in, the task you were doing (transferring, re-positioning, setting up, cutting with handsaw, cutting with a chainsaw), the distance between the tree n chipper, the route (open / closed), the duration etc. etc. This should all be considered as part of the risk assessment / work at height / emergency contingencies process but in practice its dynamic.

 

Bottom line if you were using the chainsaw in the tree I would expect the 2nd guy, who is presumably also the nominated 'aerial rescuer', to be present, observing and ready to go. The economics otherwise don't usually allow for them to be present all the time but they need to choose their moments.

 

All that said IF you company policy and procedures dictate the rescuer must be there all the time then 'so be it.'

 

Refer to AFAG 401/402 and AA Guide to Good Climbing Practice (Chapter 10) for further info...but it generalises principals and isn't prescriptive to every situation, that's your (combined) job as the competent climbers.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Yorkshireman]

its really a matter for your H&S department & line managers to expedite,

 

you are the sharp end and should in line with the valid point Paul makes be given the tools resources and time required.

 

during aerial operations an aerial rescue provision is to be available and capable of implementation should it be needed

 

many factors and site dynamics play to dictate the operation , your onsite risk & hazard evaluation and works methodology in-line with your employers guidance manual and your own qualifications should help.

 

I take as you state the 2nd guy is sole the brash mover and chipper operator.

I take it he wont have his harness on !! none snag clothing et cetera

 

so where is the rescue kit ? is it locked in the van or is it readily at hand in case of a rescue event

 

Does your 2nd man / rescue climber have training ? does the kit have spikes, rescue knifes , climbers harness, ropes, strops and associated karabiners, fiction device / ropes etc

 

regards Iain

Edited October 10, 2013 by Yorkshireman

[Gray]

to be honest they are nit-picking a bit, half of health and saftey is made of good practice based on past accidents ect. and the other half is what the individual running the job has probably thought of extra to minimise the risk of death further, because of the responsibility put on him or her by the hierarchy and the imminent threat of loss of job or even jail time.

but this has (in some circumstances)a dramatic effect on how long the job takes, or if you know your always being watched your saftey, as your not calm .

don't worry in the future, flying robots will do it so we can all get fat.

but yes if the guy who had you in the office was an arborist he'd either give you a whistle to blow just incase or stop looking and come and help if it botherd him that much.

and to any crew who has an ariel rescuer standing by, well done in ten yrs of subbing i've only had one.

[likeitorlumpit]

I'm always thinking aerial rescue will be required most likely in a biggish tree when a climber falls and becomes unconscious hung up. Possibly a bad chainsaw cut. More often than not I think the climber will get him/herself down without help from the ground.

Both our climbers are aerial rescue trained but I think they are not prepared at all times for this event.

Like you say- should the ground man have his harness on ready. Well, yes if the climber is doing a particularly risky operation. But this isn't 100% of the time and often only 2%. Maybe the climber shouts an instruction to be ready if he thinks the situation demands it.

If theres 2 groundies and one is aerial rescue then should that one just stand about holding ropes while the other one does all the dragging. Thats a bit unlikely. Share the workload applies.

Should there be a second climbing line in the tree for 'just in case'. I've never seen that.

How far do you go.

History/ ability/ attitude/ size of tree all come into it. It's not black and white and is a dynamic situation.

Good luck with your H&S witch hunt. Hopefully they live in the real world but in reality they more likely will be covering their backs.

These are just my feelings on the debate that is so often just brushed under the carpet for practical/ financial reasons.

[Pat Ferrett]

My groundie did his ariel rescue course and one student refused to climb up as it was to high, the trainers had a pow wow and apparently the book doent require the injured party to be any certain height so they got the pretend injured climber to lower himself until the guy was content, which ended up being low enough for his foot to be touched with a running jump.

 

 

 

This guy could end up being your potential rescuer so for heavens sake have a few dry runs and dont rely on a piece of paper.

[Pete Mctree]

This is not a question directed at the OP, but a general question;

 

Do you trust the person/people around you to perform a fast & efficient rescue in the most difficult & challenging situations?

 

Do you have the mental tools to stay calm & organise yourself in crisis & self rescue or organise a rescue?

 

Can you & your team deal with a casualty in the worst scenarios, bleeding, screaming, crying & hurting? Do you have the training to use the kit available? (no point having an all singing &dancing Arb-Aid kit with no idea how to use it without causing more damage) Having the balls to stand there & try is all anyone could ask!!

 

I guess this is the check list of my perfect AR team. It might be non-realistic to some, but for me it is an achievable goal & achievable