Chainsaw update training to become mandatory for all operatives from Oct 2013

[Eddy_t]

My whole problem with extra training is the NPTC themselves. Could someone explain how they have become the sole recognised assessment of competance for forestry and arb?. Where is the competition to keep prices keen?. What stops them charging what ever they like?.

 

I will tell a story to show where the route of my beef comes from. When all this NPTC thing was starting up they basicly came round the woods looking for assessors, anyway the fella from my area who was chosen to be fair was a very good timber faller, but not a machinery man. He came and spent a day with us to learn how to use the harvester. When an FMOC in harvesting became compulsory a few years later we booked an assessment with NPTC and who turned up, it was this fella. I am sorry but that assessment cost 200 quid and half a day wasted. The whole system needs shaking up.

 

And another thing I know a few NPTC assessors and a few of them travel all round the country in a 4x4 for 1 day of assessing, now if the process was competitive then there would be no way this would be profitable. Would anyone travel 200 miles for one day of tree work?.

 

The NPTC have a decent cost for assessments, the rest of the price is down to the trainer

 

 

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[Craobh]

Morton, the UK is not the most heavily taxed country in Western Europe. It has a ways to go before it catches up with other Northern European nations. My point is that all of the country's in Europe including the UK are over taxed and regulated, IMO. This will continue

to strangle production and service oriented businesses.

easy-lift guy

 

Last derail lol I agree with ya bro

 

 

Morton there is free healthcare stateside (not universal granted) and there are unemployment benefits too is is a widely held wrong belief that there isn't the aforementioned. There are also food stamps etc etc. Granted Europe is possibly slightly ahead there. However not all the misconceptions about the states that are banded about are actually true.

 

 

I'll put it this way if you want to set up in business and are prepared to work then it way way easier to succeed over the pond than in Europe. Hard Graft and sweat are rewarded there and we don't have the rear ends taxed outta us......well yet anyhow lol

[Johny Walker]

is it going to be a law or a recomendation that refreshers are done ,sorry to be a stickler & all that, but & a very big BUT is ther is a bit of differance between the 2,is ther not

[Spruce Pirate]

In this case, all FISA members appear to have agreed that to work for them chainsaw operators will need to have carried out refresher training by Oct this year.

 

So, simples, if you don't want to do the refresher training don't work for a FISA member, or anyone who works for a FISA member. As far as I'm aware this will apply to arb, forestry, fencing, anyone who operates a chainsaw.

 

If you only do domestic arb and garden work then it is still only and HSE recommendation that you do refresher. So, the risk is yours. If you don't do it and you never have any contact with HSE you're fine. If you don't do it and HSE come knocking for whatever reason you have to justify why you haven't done it. As said before, there is more than one way to demonstrate refresher training and it can be carried out in house.

 

FISA is different, they will insist that it is a refresher course that they recognise, so can't be done in house unless you have an approved instructor working for you.

 

I've said before, the big problem with the FISA model is who is paying for it and the content of the approved courses.

[Craobh]

My whole problem with extra training is the NPTC themselves. Could someone explain how they have become the sole recognised assessment of competance for forestry and arb?. Where is the competition to keep prices keen?. What stops them charging what ever they like?.

 

I will tell a story to show where the route of my beef comes from. When all this NPTC thing was starting up they basicly came round the woods looking for assessors, anyway the fella from my area who was chosen to be fair was a very good timber faller, but not a machinery man. He came and spent a day with us to learn how to use the harvester. When an FMOC in harvesting became compulsory a few years later we booked an assessment with NPTC and who turned up, it was this fella. I am sorry but that assessment cost 200 quid and half a day wasted. The whole system needs shaking up.

 

And another thing I know a few NPTC assessors and a few of them travel all round the country in a 4x4 for 1 day of assessing, now if the process was competitive then there would be no way this would be profitable. Would anyone travel 200 miles for one day of tree work?.

 

From a different angle I can see where your coming from. I would suspect that there isn't the amount of assessors due to (well in hand falling) that there isn't many left that can and do hand fall for a living and also I know a few over here that wouldn't want the grief on teaching (me included ....well over here anyway) I do fully beleve and this might get jumped on that it is not necessarily this country that went nuts over certificates or qualifications but strings were pulled from elsewhere.........you'll may be work out where I'm talking about lol. However the UK being the UK we tend to usually comply with suggestions and rules lol where as the others (think east of here) propose then sit back pull the strings watch the UK comply then they don't.

 

 

As for competition lol .....well and this will get jumped on lol........The style that seems to be only taught here .....(I'm not talking bout the guys here that have gained experience and furthered skills by working and listening) is a style that was promoted by one person (one of the best fallers I've ever seen mind you) and there are videos of said before it took hold lol (if ya know where to look) It was taken stateside and it turned into a $$$ business however it only took hold in really one area lol......The industry over there is big enough to choose but it does depend where youcome from .....I have a friend that set up himself doing saw logs and mainly veneer cutting and the aforesaid style was the only courses he could find which he deemed wasn't wide enough in scope and a hell of a lot of money for not a lot ......so we taught him lol now he cn use that style (as it does have it's merits for sure) but he also knows other styles and ways that he can use. I'd guess the competition angle here won't change as the industry not big enough (not a hit guys) and the skill set here been mostly lost (not totally there are a few on here that know there stuff) and really this country is not a free competitive culture and is over regulated. Also I would really suggest that trainers here hands are shackled as to how and what they teach and as one guy told me (and he spot on) he can only teach so much in a week.

 

 

My views are my own and from someone who is from here but trained over there and is looking in from the outside in. I'm not being arrogant nor Mr know it all just making obsevations (maybe wrong ones granted)

[Dog Tag]

Agreed. And maybe if the certificats concentrated more on actual chainsaw and felling safety and less on which permission you needed from the council, which birds you need to look for, etc they would be more effective.

 

Nailed spot on. Paper pushing exercise. More lol for desk jocks.

[jrose]

in the same vein

 

Lantra - Lantra | News | Environmental | Land-based | Skills | Training | Business

 

shouldn't he be wearing a proper lid with chinstrap, and probably gloves

[Yorkshireman]

shouldn't he be wearing a proper lid with chinstrap, and probably gloves

 

 

[jaime bray]

Dear All,

 

I mentioned in the early pages of the thread I would ring fisa and find out, had a text through yesterday (bank holiday Monday)from FISA chairman Steve Lavery.

 

He says that refresher training is directed towards Commercial forestry operators, not arborists.

 

If arborists are operating on Forestry Commision land under a felling contract then it may be the case that refresher training is needed.

 

He, as FISA chairman, has no knowledge as to whether the Arb sector is considering these training refreshers.

 

That's from the horses mouth.

 

Regards,

 

Jaime

[paddy]

from 1st jan you cant work on forestry commision ground if you have not done refresher training 2013 ,