A MOG and A Run in with VOSA !!!!

[HCR]

Someone mentioned the roadsweeper exemption - that is specifically covered in the regulations:

 

15. A vehicle fitted with a machine, appliance, apparatus or other contrivance which is a permanent or essentially permanent fixture, provided that the only goods carried on the vehicle are—

 

(a)required for use in connection with the machine, appliance, apparatus or contrivance or the running of the vehicle; .

(b)to be mixed by the machine, appliance, apparatus or contrivance with other goods not carried on the vehicle on a road in order to thrash, grade, clean or chemically treat grain; .

©to be mixed by the machine, appliance, apparatus or contrivance with other goods not carried on the vehicle in order to make fodder for animals; or .

(d)mud or other matter swept up from the surface of a road by the use of the machine, appliance, apparatus or other contrivance.

 

I'm pretty sure the weight limts refer to the burden, so it doesn't matter if the weight is yours, the customers or anyone else's. Weight is weight and it's only the type of licence that's affected by that, not whether or not you need one at all.

[treequip]

Haulage does not apply as it carrige of your own goods,thats why you do not need an ops licence for tree work,when the truck is full of chips/timber its yours!

 

Can you show me where it says this in the regulations please

[HCR]

Can you show me where it says this in the regulations please

 

I'm guessing he was referring to this:

 

1.8 To carry your own goods in the course of your trade or business you need a restricted licence. You must not carry goods for other people for hire or reward if you have a restricted licence. If you do, you could be fined and lose your licence.

1.9 A standard national licence allows you to carry your own goods in Great Britain, AND to carry goods for other people for hire or reward in Great Britain. Even if you carry other people’s goods only occasionally, you must have a standard national licence. You can be fined if you use your vehicles for international hire or reward work when your licence covers you for national operations only. However, a standard national licence allows you to haul loaded trailers to or from ports within Great Britain as part of an international journey as long as your motor vehicles do not actually leave Great Britain.

 

It's the type of licence needed that changes, not the overall requirement to have one.

[treequip]

I'm guessing he was referring to this:

 

Nooo that can’t be it, that says you need an O licence even if the goods are yours, have another look for him and see if you can find the bit that contradicts this:laugh1:

 

It's the type of licence needed that changes, not the overall requirement to have one

 

Thanks, I was aware of that.

[HCR]

Here's a summary of the exemptions; no mention of arb work that I can see:

 

The following list reflects the substance of the main exemptions from operator licensing and is a summary only. Details of most of them can be found in Schedule 3 to the Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Regulations 1995.

•vehicles first used before 1977 which have an unladen weight not exceeding 1525kg and for which the maximum gross plated weight is between 3500kg and 3556.21kg

(3.5 tons)

•motor vehicles & their trailers using public roads for less than 9.654km (6 miles) a week, whilst moving between private premises

•vehicles being used under a trade licence

•vehicles constructed, or adapted, primarily for carrying passengers & their effects while being used for that purpose, and any trailer drawn

•vehicles used by, or under the control of Her Majesty’s United Kingdom forces and visiting forces vehicles

•vehicles being used by local authorities for Civil Defence purposes, or to carry out their functions in respect of certain enactments

•vehicles being used for police, fire or ambulance purposes

•fire-fighting & rescue vehicles used in mines

•RNLI & Coastguard vehicles when used for transporting lifeboats, appliances or crew

•vehicles being held ready for use in emergencies by water, electricity, gas & telephone undertakings

•tractors, including agricultural tractors, used in certain circumstances

•vehicles being used to carry goods within aerodromes

•vehicles being used for funerals

•uncompleted vehicles on test or trial

•vehicles being used for or in connection with (or on their way to) snow clearing or distribution of salt, grit etc

[agrimog]

after reading the posts on this subject it is clear a lot of users do not fully understand the ins and outs of running a mog, this falls into 2 catagories, is it a truck, or is it a tractor, truck= no pto, no linkages, usually the "L" or **50 models of unimogs,

tractor= pto and/or linkages, registered as agricultural machine, and operating under the agricultural, horticultural, or forestry exemptions....NOT arb work..., cutting and chipping trees in a domestic enviroment does not count as forestry, same for the use of red , see the memorandum below, this is straight from HMRC. If you stay within these rules you will not have a problem, they do allow a large amount of scope, step outside and either HMRC,or VOSA will jump on you, what I have done to cover myself, or anyone driving my mog , is download the rules from the DVLA site and the HMRC site, laminate them, and keep them in the vehicle, the few times I have been stopped I present these to the person stopping me and this seems to satisfy them, as long as my answers to any questions fall within what these downloads read (and of course they always do !!)

10. Appendix

Memorandum of Agreement in respect of the use of agricultural vehicles on the road

Parties to the agreement

 

In consideration of the need for clearly understood and easily applied guidelines on the use of agricultural vehicles on road, and the need for these guidelines to respect the intent of the law whilst minimising regulatory burdens on the agricultural, horticultural and forestry industries, the following Government departments and agencies and industry associations have reached a common position on how legislation shall be interpreted and applied:

 

HM Revenue & Customs

Driver Vehicle Licensing Agency

National Farmers Union

National Association of Agricultural Contractors

Confederation of Forest Industries

 

The purpose of this Memorandum of Agreement is to provide guidance to those engaged in agriculture, horticulture and forestry, and to agencies enforcing compliance with the legislation. Where disputes arise these will continue to be considered on an individual basis with regard to the relevant legislation and any definitive interpretation of the law would remain to be given by the courts.

Scope of agreement

 

This memorandum of agreement is restricted to the use of agricultural vehicles by the occupier of the land or the owner of the crop, or to a contractor or other person engaged to perform an agricultural, horticultural or forestry operation on the land.

 

The agreement applies to the following types of vehicle:

 

agricultural tractors

agricultural engines

agricultural material handlers

light agricultural vehicles

vehicles used between different parts of land

 

Definitions of these vehicles, for hydrocarbon oils duty purposes, can be found in Schedule 1 to the Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979, as amended.

 

Definitions of agricultural vehicles, for vehicle Excise duty purposes, can be found in Schedule 2 to the Vehicle Excise Registration Act 1994, as amended.

 

Vehicles covered by this agreement are:

 

exempt from vehicle Excise duty (VED)

entitled to use rebated gas oil (red diesel)

 

when used on public roads solely for purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture or forestry.

 

Other classes of vehicles that are exempt from VED or entitled to use red diesel are not covered by this agreement.

 

In the case of agricultural engines use of red diesel is restricted to proceeding to and from a place where the vehicle is to be used or has been used for these purposes. When so proceeding the vehicle may not carry any load except such as is necessary for its propulsion or the operation of any machinery that is built-in or permanently attached. Examples of acceptable loads that can be hauled by agricultural engines include the header of a combine harvester or a bowser for a crop sprayer.

 

In the case of vehicles nil-licensed for limited use between different parts of land, use of public roads is restricted to passing between different areas of land occupied by the same person where the distance travelled on public roads in passing between any two such areas does not exceed 1.5 kilometres.

 

In addition to use for purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture or forestry, agricultural tractors and agricultural material handlers may also be used for:

 

(a) cutting verges bordering public roads

 

(b) cutting trees or hedges bordering public roads or bordering verges which border public roads.

 

Activities accepted as falling within the definition of agriculture, horticulture or forestry include the:

 

breeding or rearing of any creature kept for the production of food, wool, skin or fur, or for the purpose of its use in the farming of land

growing or harvesting of crops including cereals, combinable crops, roots, tubers, vegetables, pulses, fruit, nuts, grasses, oilseeds and fungi for food, beverages, fodder, fuel or industrial purposes

growing or harvesting of flowering or ornamental plants

growing or harvesting of timber or other forestry products

upkeep of agricultural land such as set aside under environmental management schemes.

 

Activities not accepted as falling within the definition of agriculture, horticulture or forestry include:

 

The breeding, rearing or keeping of any creature for purposes relating to sport or recreation.

Dealing in agricultural, horticultural or forestry products.

Landscaping.

The maintenance of recreational facilities, including beaches.

Flood protection.

Peat or loam extraction.

The exploitation of wild animal or fish stocks.

Construction of buildings or other structures used for purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture or forestry.

Transportation of agricultural, horticultural or forestry produce, livestock, implements, inputs or waste, other than where this is incidental to an agricultural, horticultural or forestry operation being performed on the land. Accepted transportation uses are as set out under this agreement.

 

Subject to restrictions in the definition of the particular type of vehicle, agricultural vehicles may use red diesel on public roads and will maintain exemption from vehicle Excise duty in the following circumstances.

Movement of machinery

 

Travel to and from a place where the vehicle is to be used or has been used solely for agricultural, horticultural or forestry purposes.

Transport of trailed or mounted agricultural, horticultural and forestry implements, and of equipment or inputs required for the operation of such an implement, as part of an agricultural, horticultural or forestry operation. This does not include the towing of personal accommodation.

Transport of agricultural, horticultural or forestry machinery, and equipment or inputs required for the operation of such machinery, as part of an agricultural, horticultural and forestry operation. This does not include the transportation of vehicles for personal transport in an agricultural trailer.

Taking agricultural vehicles and trailed or mounted implements to be serviced or repaired.

Delivery or collection of an agricultural vehicle used solely for agricultural, horticultural, or forestry purposes that has been bought, sold or hired.

 

Movement of machinery by dealers and others not engaged in agriculture, horticulture or forestry is not covered by this agreement.

Movement of produce and livestock

 

Transportation of agricultural, horticultural or forestry produce within or between different areas of land occupied by the same person.

Transportation of livestock within or between different areas of land occupied by the same person.

Transport of agricultural, horticultural or forestry produce from the place of production or temporary storage.

Transport of livestock to a place where the produce is to be sold or slaughtered.

 

The transportation of produce must be incidental to an agricultural, horticultural or forestry operation being performed on the land. The onus is on the person transporting the load to demonstrate that this is the case. Transportation of produce which requires an Operator’s Licence may not be accepted as being incidental.

 

Transportation on public roads of produce or livestock by a contractor employed solely for that purpose is not included within this agreement.

Movement of agricultural, horticultural and forestry inputs

 

Collection of inputs and equipment to be used as part of an agricultural, horticultural or forestry operation, and transport within or between different areas of land occupied by the same person of inputs and equipment to be used as part of an agricultural, horticultural or forestry operation.

 

This includes:

 

hand tools

fertilisers (including farm produced manures and slurries)

pesticides

seed

animal bedding, feed and water

fencing materials

road plans for the repair of unsealed tracks.

 

This does not include:

 

household furniture or fittings

supplies required for domestic use

organic waste for disposal on agricultural land.

 

Movement of waste etc

 

Movement of agricultural, horticultural or forestry waste, within and between different parts of land occupied by the same person. The waste should have been produced by the occupier of the land.

Transport of agricultural, horticultural or forestry waste from the place where the waste was produced to a place where it is to be collected by a licensed waste carrier (or to a licensed waste disposal site if nearer). This includes inorganic waste such as plastic packaging.

Clearing the road after agricultural, horticultural or forestry operations.

Snow clearing to restore access.

stick to these rules and you shouldnt have a problem

keep mogging safely along

[swinny]

So everyones buggered. Those doing tree work with mogs and carrying load etc are falling foul of regs... yet how come councils etc get people in with machinery that falls foul of regs?

 

So were stuck with o licence or 3.5t trucks...?

[Rich2484]

Right who has the number so I can change all my details on my disco for when I use it for shipping crew about...........

 

•RNLI & Coastguard vehicles when used for transporting lifeboats, appliances or crew

[combined tree services]

Thank you for your input Agrimog this is exactly what my specialist transport solicitor/barrister made me aware of , in a short time having seen photos of the machine , its set up and its operating scope he was happy to that there are at least eight exemptions that the mog falls into> allot depends on what you do and how you operate.

 

after a long meeting my representation was more than happy to email said vosa inspector making it clear as to what we do and where we sit within the criteria , and he made it perfectly clear that i was well within my rights to carry on doing what i was doing .

[garth mc garth]

Thank you for your input Agrimog this is exactly what my specialist transport solicitor/barrister made me aware of , in a short time having seen photos of the machine , its set up and its operating scope he was happy to that there are at least eight exemptions that the mog falls into> allot depends on what you do and how you operate.

 

after a long meeting my representation was more than happy to email said vosa inspector making it clear as to what we do and where we sit within the criteria , and he made it perfectly clear that i was well within my rights to carry on doing what i was doing .

 

if it all goes wrong mate, stick some yellow tape across the doors paint the chipbox green and call it a john deere!! I'd stick to the back lanes if i was you!