Chainsaw Boots.. Why waste the money?

[Tommy_B]

This is an incredibly flawed argument, PPE is not used to enable careless cutting, its there for when things go wrong.

 

I would hope that everyone "knows where their feet are" before cutting.

 

PPE is for when things go wrong, trips, falls, kick back's, etc, etc.

 

Your argument is like saying "never wear my seatbelt, because I don't crash into things".

 

 

I agree with Dave

 

I don't cancel car insurance at the end of the year just because I haven't had an accident.

[Albedo]

This is an incredibly flawed argument, PPE is not used to enable careless cutting, its there for when things go wrong.

 

I would hope that everyone "knows where their feet are" before cutting.

 

PPE is for when things go wrong, trips, falls, kick back's, etc, etc.

 

Your argument is like saying "never wear my seatbelt, because I don't crash into things".

 

My post is not really mean't to be an 'argument' Dave ..as in my advocating something.

 

In the original post I invited peoples thoughts on the matter.

 

It is my opinion.

 

I am interested in all the replies.

 

Even though a number of people have agreed in full or in part with my original post and of course many have disagreed....

 

I am weighing up everybody's thoughts on the matter and remain at liberty to change my mind at some point in the future.

[skyhuck]

My post is not really mean't to be an 'argument' Dave ..as in my advocating something.

 

In the original post I invited peoples thoughts on the matter.

 

It is my opinion.

 

I am interested in all the replies.

 

Even though a number of people have agreed in full or in part with my original post and of course many have disagreed....

 

I am weighing up everybody's thoughts on the matter and remain at liberty to change my mind at some point in the future.

 

I would hope all the decisions you make regarding work related safety are based on reasoned "argument".

 

Do we not all base any decisions and opinions on reasoned argument, often its just an internal debate where we weigh up the pro's and con's of different products or courses of action.

 

You have convinced yourself that because you take great care were your feet are when cutting, that you don't need saw protection in your boots.

 

I guess I could have used the word "reason" instead of "argument", but what I was meaning was that you have used what you see as the facts of the situation to decide you don't need saw boots, but I'm saying that the premiss on which your reasoning/argument is built is incorrect.

[Albedo]

I would hope all the decisions you make regarding work related safety are based on reasoned "argument".

 

Do we not all base any decisions and opinions on reasoned argument, often its just an internal debate where we weigh up the pro's and con's of different products or courses of action.

 

You have convinced yourself that because you take great care were your feet are when cutting, that you don't need saw protection in your boots.

 

I guess I could have used the word "reason" instead of "argument", but what I was meaning was that you have used what you see as the facts of the situation to decide you don't need saw boots, but I'm saying that the premiss on which your reasoning/argument is built is incorrect.

 

 

That's a fair summary of where I am right now Dave.

 

My original reason however was that you couldn't buy chainsaw boots in Whanganui NZ and I needed some boots.....guess I just got used to it.

[Timbermcpherson]

I come on arbtalk on the odd occasion just to get a bite normally from landrover folk but then I read a thread like this! There really is alot of people out there who have not got a clue what they are talking about and should not be let loose within this dangerous industry! Where possible I will always try to promote health and safety and industry best practice, when the approach of "why waste money on ppe " then all I can say is you are prats! When working on your own land do as you wish but when industry working there is certain acts to adhere to where possible formally the health and safety at work act then on puwer loler ppe regs 92 ! I have seen and heard of many incidents involving chainsaws, why take the non ppe approach it's common Sense really or are some people that stupid that they don't understand this! Type a instead of type c again risk assessment dictated, chainsaw use wearing normally work boots not really a good control measures!!

 

So do you wear full ballistic jacket and gloves at all times?

[Albedo]

Mr L200log can be excused for his angry response.

 

I could have just asked if people use chainsaw boots.

 

Because I said they are a waste of money...he sees this as irresponsible, which it probably was. So he was justifiably fuming mad about it.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Albedo

[Pedroski]

God looks after me when using a chainsaw. I have never had an accident - not so much as nicked a boot. If I do have an accident then it is God's will. Therefore I don't bother with insurance as it won't cover an act of God

[Pete Mctree]

Cool. Fancy a little experiment ? How about crossing the m25 a few times blind-folded. You don't need to see as it will be gods will if you survive

[Albedo]

Mr L200log can be excused for his angry response.

 

I could have just asked if people use chainsaw boots.

 

Because I said they are a waste of money...he sees this as irresponsible, which it probably was. So he was justifiably fuming mad about it.

 

There again if you take out the bits about me being a stupid ignorant prat.

 

You are left with the rigid adherence to H&S argument.

 

Which does rather miss the point:001_smile:

[Albedo]

I am going to take my point a step further, to some extent addressing Skyhucks point that the PPE is there for unforeseen circumstances or accidents.

 

I intend to argue that some accidents / incidents / events, should not be allowed to happen because the end result is too serious or painful.

 

An example of an ‘accident’ or in my view… foreseeable and avoidable incident was reported here on arbtalk a few years ago.

 

A climber descended a tree to clear a limb that was being lowered but had hung up on a stub. It was too heavy to lift so he cut bits off it off. Whilst clearing it he cut his rope below his prussic and didn’t notice, he descended to clear some more and came off his line. He suffered terrible injuries falling on concrete and serious head injuries due in part to not having his helmet strap done up.

 

Due to the H&S investigation no further detail was released. H&S will (probably) blame the incident on elements of the lowering procedure, helmet straps, lack of secondary attachment, work pressure etc. They won’t spot the actual cause

 

It is my guess that he broke some cardinal rules which can never be broken if you intend to stay alive or not badly injured. The main one being that he must have become annoyed at having to descend and sort the situation. Otherwise how could he cut his main line and not notice unless he was flustered or hurried in some way.

 

Because of this lapse in procedure he paid a heavy price. The cardinal rule in this case being ‘never allow yourself to become annoyed/flustered/rushed up a tree’. If , for example, your saw is annoying you because it keeps stalling, then fix it…never get increasingly annoyed and carry on… you will get hurt.

 

It is my whole argument that safety is about knowing that there are some areas of personal work discipline that must be stuck to at all times. If you allow yourself to become lax on this discipline there are no health and safety regs or items of PPE that are going to save you. You are going to get hurt badly.

 

I will just throw in as well that kickback, is often talked about and was mentioned by Skyhuck in his list of potential ‘accidents’. There is no mystery to kickback and it is 100% avoidable if you understand how it works and adhere to the kind of discipline I am describing here. Just don’t catch the end of the bar on things. Working on the ground set up logs for cutting so they are clear of other logs. Don’t hold them in place with your foot ever.. the saw can skid into your foot and chainsaw boots won’t save you.

 

If anyone reads this who knows the guy in this incident then I mean him no disrespect. I hope he would understand that I am using this incident to illustrate a point in order to help avoid future serious incidents (not accidents).

Edited August 30, 2012 by Albedo