Men or machines.

[Mike Hill]

I think the small size of the average back garden in the UK means that alot of the waste must be handballed out.

[Johny Walker]

machines bring em on i say why would any body want to be in the back of a truck jumping up & down with a chainsaw mulching away :scared1:when thers chippers about when was a we boy we dug stumps out by hand,sod that ,1,st chance i got ,i got agrinder

[Stephen Blair]

i think anyone who has had to do real back breaking digging, picking, mattocking and dragging and dont forget the dreaded mashing down with 046 all day embraces kit, i am with you johny.

[tommer9]

On a general note, the industrial revolution (which is still going to a certain extent) was the start of the downfall of mass employment, and the move from the countryside to the town, and the unending poverty and social inequality that we have seen since the dawning of the age of steam. 'Bright lights syndrome' has led to a mass exodus from the countryside to the town, leaving us with slums, housing estates, soaring crime rates and drug/ alchohol dependency and all the other social ills. That coupled with a population boom, and also aided by said boom, has led to the situation we now see ourselves in. On top of that the second world war and the 5-10 years following also had a massive effect on the amount of, and the manner of use of, 'modern' machinery. The late 40's and the 50's saw a ballooning of modern technology, and an overburdening desire to embrace that technology. The war effort changed the way that the world looked at working methids, and the way it saw macinery in the work place. On a global scale we were desperate to show that our country (speaking for any developed nation here) was the best and at the cutting edge. It was a time of massive invention (post wartime- the military is and always has been the driving force behind technological advances in the modern age) and enormous promotion of technology- people wanted a sea change which they saw as coming from modernisation. Most people had been involved in the war effort, the upshot being a mass exodus from the countryside and rural life. It was not seen as modern. Those who made their living from the land were bombarded with wonderful 'labour saving devices' and 'technological advances' as were housewives (automatic cleaning aids, vacuums etc) et al. The tractor was the latest thing- the little grey fergie and the fordson were groundbreaking bits of kit, and the media and advertisers were more than ready to get on the bandwagon, in order to overcome astrong resistance and mistrust from the rural workforce. However greed and profit won again, and 'progress(?)' continued. Land based industry was seen as backward and unattractive, on top of which most of the male workforce had been injured or killed, and alot of those that hadnt were persuing more 'modern' jobs away from the countryside. All this allowed machinery to boom.

Wages were demanded to be higher too- the war saw an end to the real 'slave labour' and people were coming back demanding more, the answer for unscruplous greedy employers who didnt want ANY drop in perceived profits, was mechanisation. Coupled with technology as outlined above, and a massive demand for food grown at home, the way was paved for mass mechanisation......Then came a population boom coupled with the 'discovery' of petroleum based fertilizers. Suddenly the world couldnt keep up with demand for food, and mechanisation and fertilizer was the order of the day, reaffirming a belief that mechanisation was good and labour bad. We now see ourselves as totally mechanised, and that that is the only way we can be. As a whole we put ourselves before others- the idea of 'each man for himself' has really come into fruition, and so we buy a machine instead of paying wages, as then the money stays in our pockets, but to what effect- socail misery and inbalance- the haves and the hav-nots, the break up of community spirit, fuelled by television and advertising, and the culture of fear that our media have been allowed/ encouraged to promote. The thatcherite dream....me, me me. There was a time, in the last century even, when the idea of putting others before yourself and a community spirit was what drove most people, and the world WAS a MUCH better place for it. This has been totally replaced now by a consumerist selfishness- so often i hear people complain that they cant afford labour rates, yet they will spend tens of thousands on eqipment, which then costs hundreds if not thousands to keep going and to repair etc etc, whilst at the same time making the world a worse, more uncaring, more polluted place, but making the individuals life easier, or so they are led to believe.

Progress they call it....I prefer to call it the demise of humanity....or just 'modern life' and it makes me pretty sick.

Maybe thats why i will always be poor.

Rant over. Ish.

[csservices]

I have nothing against machines for doing a job but now and again you need a man not a machine on a job and the trouble now is its getting harder and harder to find lads who will graft and not just sit on thier asses on a machine, on the plus side it means that those of us who will graft will always find work so long as we're not crippled from all the hard work

[combined tree services]

i was chatting to a customer of mine who is a farmer , he is in his late 60's now but he was explaining that back in the 60-70's farmers bought a bit of kit and once they had used it on their farm they would then go to other farms who did not have the same piece of kit , this meant that ll the lacal farmers got the use of many bits of kit but only had the expense of the bits of kit belonging to them , he went on to say that these days most farms have betwene 100 - 1 million punds worth of kit which is sat doing nothing - so what was so wrong with doing that ? or what is wrong with the farming community that they cant do it now ??? and possibly the same in tree surgery , if tommer or dangerous bri had a job on that requires my mog and 9 inch chipper then i would go and help them out and in return im sure they would help me out . or is this an idealist outlook ??

[combined tree services]

I have nothing against machines for doing a job but now and again you need a man not a machine on a job and the trouble now is its getting harder and harder to find lads who will graft and not just sit on thier asses on a machine, on the plus side it means that those of us who will graft will always find work so long as we're not crippled from all the hard work

 

i have just got rid of a guy that was willing to spend any amount of time sat in a cab pulling levers but as soon as it came to a job with a long drag to the chipper he would spend his time stood at the chipper waiting for someone to bring him some brash to chip , if he was then asked to drag he would turn a funny colour - almost purple to the point i thought he would collapse - quite simpy he was work shy and only keen on the macine based work !! and he wonderd how he got so out of breath and turned a funny colour

[Stephen Blair]

farmers have machinery rings, the diference with farmers is that they are a diferent breed from us, and they dont fight over customers, they have 1 customer and they all go and see him on a Monday at the market and the best animal gets the best price. If they rent out a tractor and trailer its the same price across the board. Most farmers are related to every other farmer in the local area, so if someone breaks a plough then they will fix it because its probably their cousins lol

[skyhuck]

The thatcherite dream....me, me me. There was a time, in the last century even, when the idea of putting others before yourself and a community spirit was what drove most people, and the world WAS a MUCH better place for it.

 

Progress they call it....I prefer to call it the demise of humanity....or just 'modern life' and it makes me pretty sick.

Maybe thats why i will always be poor.

Rant over. Ish.

 

I really think you have a very rose coloured view of the past mate.

 

In the past the haves could literally buy the have nots, going to labour markets and buying the next 5 years of a 15 year olds life of his parents.

 

The have nots would die for the lack of food or medical attention.

 

The gap between rich and poor now is just in the area of luxury, I don't eat any worse than the queen and I am as warm and well clothed as her.

 

Life today is pretty sweet, IMO.

[tommer9]

i was chatting to a customer of mine who is a farmer , he is in his late 60's now but he was explaining that back in the 60-70's farmers bought a bit of kit and once they had used it on their farm they would then go to other farms who did not have the same piece of kit , this meant that ll the lacal farmers got the use of many bits of kit but only had the expense of the bits of kit belonging to them , he went on to say that these days most farms have betwene 100 - 1 million punds worth of kit which is sat doing nothing - so what was so wrong with doing that ? or what is wrong with the farming community that they cant do it now ??? and possibly the same in tree surgery , if tommer or dangerous bri had a job on that requires my mog and 9 inch chipper then i would go and help them out and in return im sure they would help me out . or is this an idealist outlook ??

 

Thats such a good point there Dave. That is exactly how it was when i was growing up farming and other landbased jobs. When it came to combining, one local farmer had a combine, and he would contract iot out to the surrounding area, in return for help with hay/ silage. or trailer work dragging his own corn. What capitalism has done for us is given us the me, me,me attitude, summed up beautifully by this [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI]YouTube - Money - Pink Floyd + Lyrics[/ame]. Comunity spirit has been destroyed by the pirsuit of excess mobney and what the media have persuaded us we HAVE to have, be it tommy hilfiger jeans or the lates Claaas jaguar Forager, or a schleising chipper.