Welcome back to the EU!

[Squaredy]

Well I guess the remainers must be celebrating.  We are now in effect back in the EU.

 

Here is a quote from Martin Howe KC one of the leading experts in EU law, writing today about Starmer’s reset:

 

Brexit was all about getting back control of our laws, our borders and our money. A Brexit in which we formally leave the European Union but still follow its laws is senseless. We lose our freedom to choose our laws, and we don’t even have a vote on the shape of the laws which continue to govern us.
 

Such has been the political rush to get the Starmer reset deal announced that no actual legal text has been agreed. Instead, there are a series of vague aspirational documents containing agreements of principle. But they are concrete enough to reveal an astonishing series of concessions and surrenders by the Starmer government to the EU in return, as far as one can see, for nothing at all.

 

This pulls the UK back into the EU single market across the whole field of food and agriculture. It is a flagrant breach of Labour’s 2024 election manifesto promise that there will be no return to the single market.

 

The UK will be obliged to ‘dynamically’ apply EU rules. This means that whenever the EU changes its rules in this field, the UK must follow. In addition, those rules will be interpreted under a dispute resolution mechanism which ensures that the ECJ is ‘the ultimate authority’ on the interpretation of those rules. Thus, not only will we be accepting a huge body of foreign law to apply across the country, but we will also be accepting that that law is to be interpreted by a foreign court. And not just any court, but a court with a track record of ignoring legal texts in order to further the European project.

 

Enjoy the EU Arbtalkers!

[Big J]

In fairness, Brexit was a shit idea implemented terribly by morons. 

 

The world has changed hugely since 2016, and closeness to our European neighbours is more important than ever. 

 

Reintegration cannot come soon enough.

[Mike Hill]

You live in Sweden and are German are you not?

 

Are you integrated yourself since your still pretending to be English?

[Mick Dempsey]

Don’t be so salty Mike.

 

He’s as entitled to his opinion as anyone.

Edited 15 hours ago by Mick Dempsey

[GarethM]

And WTF has changed, according to the news just every man and his German shepherd have come here!.

[Steven P]

I might ask, how has Brexit and it's application positively affected anyone? Think deeply and seriously.

 

- A lot of talk on this forum about immigration, and since Brexit the Tory party was able to have an open door policy on immigration, excluding EU citizens obviously (we don't like the Belgians). The Tory policy since Brexit was mass immigration into the UK. Immigration was a fraction of what it was before.

- Immigration returns was a thing when we were still friends with our neighbours too, not something to be used as a bargaining tool now.

- Freedom of movement also worked the other way, added delays and costs to travel to EU, but also truck routes that went through Britain to Ireland now avoid the land route, sea travel now

- UK Business struggled and still does struggle to trade internally to Northern Ireland

- Similarly it is a struggle to trade with Europe, there are delays and costs added

- Fishing, and we can catch all the fish we want in the North Sea, but the cod we like are not native to our shores

- NHS... yes, that 350 million on the big red bus... kind of vanished hasn't it

 

 

So this rip roaring success that is Brexit, hand on heart, where have you benefitted?

 

 

[Squaredy]

4 minutes ago, Steven P said:

I might ask, how has Brexit and it's application positively affected anyone? Think deeply and seriously.

 

- A lot of talk on this forum about immigration, and since Brexit the Tory party was able to have an open door policy on immigration, excluding EU citizens obviously (we don't like the Belgians). The Tory policy since Brexit was mass immigration into the UK. Immigration was a fraction of what it was before.

- Immigration returns was a thing when we were still friends with our neighbours too, not something to be used as a bargaining tool now.

- Freedom of movement also worked the other way, added delays and costs to travel to EU, but also truck routes that went through Britain to Ireland now avoid the land route, sea travel now

- UK Business struggled and still does struggle to trade internally to Northern Ireland

- Similarly it is a struggle to trade with Europe, there are delays and costs added

- Fishing, and we can catch all the fish we want in the North Sea, but the cod we like are not native to our shores

- NHS... yes, that 350 million on the big red bus... kind of vanished hasn't it

 

 

So this rip roaring success that is Brexit, hand on heart, where have you benefitted?

 

 

Personally for me it is not about benefits.  Our governments of all colours over the last twenty five years or so have mis-managed most things.  But I find this easier to stomach than foreign unelected Eurocrats and foreign courts mismanaging us.

 

But to answer your question, one benefit is we have saved about 20 billion in net contributions since leaving.  So maybe our ‘Black Hole’ is a little smaller than it would otherwise have been.

[GarethM]

11 minutes ago, Steven P said:

I might ask, how has Brexit and it's application positively affected anyone? Think deeply and seriously.

 

- A lot of talk on this forum about immigration, and since Brexit the Tory party was able to have an open door policy on immigration, excluding EU citizens obviously (we don't like the Belgians). The Tory policy since Brexit was mass immigration into the UK. Immigration was a fraction of what it was before.

- Immigration returns was a thing when we were still friends with our neighbours too, not something to be used as a bargaining tool now.

- Freedom of movement also worked the other way, added delays and costs to travel to EU, but also truck routes that went through Britain to Ireland now avoid the land route, sea travel now

- UK Business struggled and still does struggle to trade internally to Northern Ireland

- Similarly it is a struggle to trade with Europe, there are delays and costs added

- Fishing, and we can catch all the fish we want in the North Sea, but the cod we like are not native to our shores

- NHS... yes, that 350 million on the big red bus... kind of vanished hasn't it

 

So this rip roaring success that is Brexit, hand on heart, where have you benefitted?

Typical civil service BS, oh you can't do x,y,x.

 

Why, well erm because it would mean doing what you we are TOLD to implement.

 

Instead of sitting on your arses ignoring the will of the people that elected the government to do as they were instructed!.

[AHPP]

Difficulty trading is a crass argument. If there's an impediment at either or both sides, remove those impediments. Having the same impediment both sides still means paperwork and tax.

 

It's a perfect microcosm of negative vs postive liberty. Negative liberty is the absence of constraint, no customs, no duties etc - just send the stuff. Positive liberty is a framework of permission from those who are in a position to say no - it's not liberty.

 

We don't need to go back to suffering two governments. We need to go the other way and get rid of the government we have. That's free trade.

Edited 14 hours ago by AHPP

[Bolt]

Never been totally sure what Europe produces that we can’t.

 

Never been totally sure what we produce that Europe can’t.

 

Always thought trade between us and the EU was a bit pointless.