WOW

[AHPP]

Read with mother.

 

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/criminal-damage-other-than-by-fire-value-exceeding-5000-racially-or-religiously-aggravated-criminal-damage/

 

Culpability - It's A or B, probably A. The level of planning is either way. No revenge and no risk to persons but definitely intention to seriously damage the tree. The wall damage being intentional or reckless will barely play. It's about the tree. The wall financial value was so low as to make it an add-on only. I don't think there's anything from C to nudge an A down to a B. Call it A (high culpability).

 

Harm is category 1.

 

A1:

Starting point - 1 year 6 months’ custody

Category range - 6 months – 4 years’ custody

Maximum: 10 years’ custody (basic offence)

 

Then start nudging it up for things like do they have a load of form, were they on bail for something else when they did this, was it because they hate foreign trees etc. Let's assume neutral for this since we don't know anything (or I don't anyway).

Then continue nudging it up for other listed aggravating factors. Three of the list of ten definitely play. Nudging the starting point up 30% gets us to 23 months so far.

 

Then nudge it down for bleeding heart liberal stuff. Are they sorry etc. They'll have a sob story of some kind but I can't see much washing. 5% off if they're lucky. 22 months.

 

Then some technical/procedural stuff like did they cough early or did they put the prosecution to the trouble of a full trial? Full trial so no credit.

 

Adjust for totality. Nothing complicated here. Very isolated offences. Maybe a bit extra for the wall. Maybe not.

 

So on the guidlines and with the information I know (not much - I don't read much news) 22-24 months. I'd say they court will want to give a particularly harsh sentence to give the public blood but that's why there are sentencing guidelines. 24 months is pretty much in the middle of the range. Easy for a judge to go with that so as to limit accusations of undue harshness/leniency. Let's not rule out an angry judge giving them a walloping one and saying, "**************** you. Appeal it on your own time. I'm off to lunch. You're off to prison." though.

 

There's probably some stuff about how much time you spend in an actual prison before being let out early or whatever. I don't know anything about that. If I had to guess, 24 month sentences, 12 months inside and then let them out once the point has been made. But I really am guessing there.

 

Sentencing and mitigation is a whole sub field of legal work btw, like stump grinding. There are briefs who specialise in being good losers.

 

General point: The courts punish offences against property disproportionately sternly compared to offences against the person. Someone up the page pointed out rapists can get comparatively derisory sentences. Yep.

Edited Friday at 23:56 by AHPP

[Mark Bolam]

7 hours ago, kram said:

@Mark Bolam One of the UK's most significant trees? It was a relatively young sycamore. The only thing special about it was the location and peoples memories of it.

 

Somone should grind out the stump and plant a nice oak in its place. 

 

Only Daniel Grahams, as he told on the other one. Not for protection from angry tree huggers.

 

You are pretty clueless.

 

Tree of the Year in 2016.

 

Do you know how well an oak would thrive in that setting in Northumberland?

[MattyF]

7 hours ago, kram said:

@Mark Bolam One of the UK's most significant trees? It was a relatively young sycamore. The only thing special about it was the location and peoples memories of it.

 

Somone should grind out the stump and plant a nice oak in its place. 

 

Only Daniel Grahams, as he told on the other one. Not for protection from angry tree huggers.

The trial was postponed after he tried to top himself and was in hospital when it should of started… he knew what was coming and still pleaded not guilty or maybe it’s a unique trait of  a certain demographic to believe your own lies when you tell them enough despite being caught in the act. 

[AHPP]

10 hours ago, AHPP said:

Read with mother.

 

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/criminal-damage-other-than-by-fire-value-exceeding-5000-racially-or-religiously-aggravated-criminal-damage/

 

Culpability - It's A or B, probably A. The level of planning is either way. No revenge and no risk to persons but definitely intention to seriously damage the tree. The wall damage being intentional or reckless will barely play. It's about the tree. The wall financial value was so low as to make it an add-on only. I don't think there's anything from C to nudge an A down to a B. Call it A (high culpability).

 

Harm is category 1.

 

A1:

Starting point - 1 year 6 months’ custody

Category range - 6 months – 4 years’ custody

Maximum: 10 years’ custody (basic offence)

 

Then start nudging it up for things like do they have a load of form, were they on bail for something else when they did this, was it because they hate foreign trees etc. Let's assume neutral for this since we don't know anything (or I don't anyway).

Then continue nudging it up for other listed aggravating factors. Three of the list of ten definitely play. Nudging the starting point up 30% gets us to 23 months so far.

 

Then nudge it down for bleeding heart liberal stuff. Are they sorry etc. They'll have a sob story of some kind but I can't see much washing. 5% off if they're lucky. 22 months.

 

Then some technical/procedural stuff like did they cough early or did they put the prosecution to the trouble of a full trial? Full trial so no credit.

 

Adjust for totality. Nothing complicated here. Very isolated offences. Maybe a bit extra for the wall. Maybe not.

 

So on the guidlines and with the information I know (not much - I don't read much news) 22-24 months. I'd say they court will want to give a particularly harsh sentence to give the public blood but that's why there are sentencing guidelines. 24 months is pretty much in the middle of the range. Easy for a judge to go with that so as to limit accusations of undue harshness/leniency. Let's not rule out an angry judge giving them a walloping one and saying, "**************** you. Appeal it on your own time. I'm off to lunch. You're off to prison." though.

 

There's probably some stuff about how much time you spend in an actual prison before being let out early or whatever. I don't know anything about that. If I had to guess, 24 month sentences, 12 months inside and then let them out once the point has been made. But I really am guessing there.

 

Sentencing and mitigation is a whole sub field of legal work btw, like stump grinding. There are briefs who specialise in being good losers.

 

General point: The courts punish offences against property disproportionately sternly compared to offences against the person. Someone up the page pointed out rapists can get comparatively derisory sentences. Yep.

 

A crime brief in the toon of my acquaintance reckons top end of A1 - four years. She’s biased though. Like half of the north east, she wants the guillotine. 
 

If it’s going to be televised, they could do it like Deal or No Deal. What’s Noel Edmonds up to these days?

[MattyF]

Ten years would be nice. 

[daveatdave]

if they are being held on remand that will be taken into account for the sentencing.

i bet the stump is putting up new shoots already it took me 2 years to kill my sycamore stump