Taking on an employee

[Excels1or]

We have a groundie that we've been paying as a freelancer for the past 6 months. All very unofficial, he does the work, invoices us and we pay him. Its on an ad hoc basis as he has to do the school runs so can only really work from 10 until 1500 on certain days, some days due to family commitments he cant work, but he's an absolute beast and does more than enough work when he's onsite.  He's recently brought up that he wants more money, and would prefer to go on as a paye with us which is not a problem, however with regards to the ad hoc work hours/days we're not sure of the best contract to put him on. Do we put him on a minimum hour contract? 0 hour? 

[maybelateron]

I had a guy years ago on a zero hours contract and it worked well for both of us, as we were fair to each other. This situation you describe reminds me of a worker I had for 5 years, until last year. He worked very hard, and did the job well. I found myself gradually accommodating more and more of his requests to fit his work round his partners hours, to an unreasonable extent. Has he said he wants more money by working more hours, or more per hour. Sorry if I sound a miserable old git but I have sadly found that too many employees think if they have a fair and ethical employer they can push the boundaries.

[swinny]

Never employ anyone on the books again me..... no horror stories but never again. 

 

Took too many days holiday, all pretty provided, training, pension etc and still handed notice in as work was too much. 

 

As above says being fair and looking after folk can lead to being taken advantage of.

 

OK if your business is WOKE  👍 

[doobin]

Employees who have to do school runs are useless. You want a job that fits around school, become a dinner lady.

 

I would not employ the guy you describe. You'll end up having to let him go as school runs and kids off sick become too much of a problem, leaving you wide open to a discrimination case. If he's worth more, pay him more, but invoiced (with UTR) only.

Edited April 10, 2023 by doobin

[Ty Korrigan]

I have a groundy who works part-time with me but cannot drive.

She starts late and finishes early due to school runs.

I hang on sharpening saws until she is ready or she walks to the job if in town.

Recently the French have been striking alot over pension reforms so she loses days because of collecting kids at midday for dinner and picking them up early because there is no after school club.

It works well enough on smaller local jobs and I even drop her back home then return to finish up on my own.

I make an effort because I like working with her.

I admit it is easier because she is my wife and technically I work for her but still, a point of reference.

   Stuart

 

[doobin]

1 minute ago, Ty Korrigan said:

I have a groundy who works part-time with me but cannot drive.

She starts late and finishes early due to school runs.

I hang on sharpening saws until she is ready or she walks to the job if in town.

Recently the French have been striking alot over pension reforms so she loses days because of collecting kids at midday for dinner and picking them up early because there is no after school club.

It works well enough on smaller local jobs and I even drop her back home then return to finish up on my own.

I make an effort because I like working with her.

I admit it is easier because she is my wife and technically I work for her but still, a point of reference.

   Stuart

 

That's just a mom and pop team keeping things going. Both of you enjoy the benefits- no childcare fees, extra money on a job goes straight into the family and the children are brought up happily by their parents rather than strangers. It's an ideal situation and I commend you for it.

 

But it doesn't work that way outside of family I'm afraid. One parties gain (not having to pay for childcare) is the other person's loss (the inconvenience of an employee leaving before the job is finished)

[Jon Lad]

45 minutes ago, maybelateron said:

I had a guy years ago on a zero hours contract and it worked well for both of us, as we were fair to each other. This situation you describe reminds me of a worker I had for 5 years, until last year. He worked very hard, and did the job well. I found myself gradually accommodating more and more of his requests to fit his work round his partners hours, to an unreasonable extent. Has he said he wants more money by working more hours, or more per hour. Sorry if I sound a miserable old git but I have sadly found that too many employees think if they have a fair and ethical employer they can push the boundaries.

I have found the old saying about relationships in business to be more and more accurate the longer that  I’m in business:

 

“How it begins, is how it goes.”

 

If you start by accommodating folk - late starts, early finishes, random days off with little notice given, paying them early so they can afford their rent / car loan or repairs etc. 

 

Then in my experience, they will never stop expecting that and suddenly turn into wonder-worker; they’re just going to want you to continue doing the same or seek for you to accommodate them even more. 

[Steven P]

Zero hours contracts get bad press, but assuming that some weeks there is work, some none then giving him a contracted number of hours -could- be problems in the future even if they total hours works evens out. Suppose he is short of money one week, no work, you get the phone call "but the contract says you'll pay me for 10 hours work regardless"..

 

However for every horror story out there most firms employ people, the cities are full of office blocks with employees in them, so it must work out well.

 

All I'd perhaps say is be prepared to say no to requests unless you are being unreasonable (so an occasional early dart to pick the kids up is OK, but if it is every day at 2:30 and "I've got to go get the kids" then you need to set boundaries). Remember with employment however much you like them with the business you have to treat them as employees for a lot of stuff, keep a distance and stick to the routines.

[Ty Korrigan]

I feel this way about subby climbers and that puts us off employing any-one.

Still I'm looking for a fresh faced kid with no bad habits to become an apprentice.

One of our work experience lads is interested for September 2024

My subby climbers are often moody tempermental divas.

Late to site, always sleep deprived and stressed, first words usually an optimistic "never get this done in a day let alone a morning"

Stomps back to his van for a Red Bull, vape, black coffee, throwball tantrum, mobile phone diversion before a sudden positive mood swing as whatever he took earlier kicks in.

Strings lunch out as long as he dares only to randomly disappear from site between 3-4pm 

Texts later "oh I thought it was all done"

Sometimes rucks up late to a job having been on an opiates binge for 3 days.

Lane closure, traffic control and 3 groundies stamping feet to keep warm only to say "I can't do this today, don't feel up to it"

Anxiety, depression, emotional wrecks and the pre-Brexit expat climbers were probably running away from something.

Certainly a very good reason to buy a MEWP and quit relying on these twunts.

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Ty Korrigan

[AHPP]

9 minutes ago, Ty Korrigan said:

 

My subby climbers are often moody tempermental divas.

Late to site, always sleep deprived and stressed, first words usually an optimistic "never get this done in a day let alone a morning"

Stomps gack to his van for a Red Bull, vape, black coffee, throwball tantrum, mobile phone diversion before a sudden positive mood swing as whatever he took earlier kicks in.

Strings lunch out as long as he e dares only to randomly disappear from site between 3-4pm 

Texts later "oh I thought it was all done"

Sometimes rucks up late to a job having been on an opiates binge for 3 days.

Lane closure, traffic control and 3 groundies stamping feet to keep warm only to say "I can't do this today, don't feel up to it"

Anxiety, depression, emotional wrecks and the pre-Brexit expat climbers were probably running away from something.

Certainly a very good reason to buy a MEWP and quit relying on these twunts.

 

 

 

I love those guys.