Employing a 16 year old.

[Haironyourchest]

18 minutes ago, JAG63 said:

The mass of red tape and arse covering over here is probably one reason the industry is suffering, we're too busy protecting kids to let them try anything and get enthused. Seem to remember a similar story when I first tried diving in the 70's, BSAC wanted 6 weeks pool work with a mask and snorkel before moving on to SCUBA, years later I did a PADI course and was in open water after a day with SCUBA in the pool. I think BSAC have now changed as they were becoming irrelevant, people either went with PADI or just got a mate to show them.

It's a bloody sad state of affairs. I consider myself blessed to have grown up in a time and place where that cotton wool culture didn't affect me, at least not in the physical work side of things... Your comment about letting the kid get on with it and figure it out himself, hit home... Some weeks ago, a car broke down next to my van in town. Flat tyre, mother and teenage son in the car. Mother had an oxygen tube up her nose and the son was messing around in the boot. He was clearly struggling, so I offered him my toolbox. "I've never changed a tyre before" he said. I didn't offer to do it for them, as this was clearly a golden opportunity for him to get stuck in.

 

I sat on a bench and watch him thrashing the car around with the tyre iron. "Try putting the hand break on". He couldn't get the jack to work. "Try feeling under the car for a ridge - the ridge goes in the slot on the top of your jack, that way it stays put"... "Try loosening all the nuts a bit before you jack up the car, that way the wheel won't spin..." And so on. He was making progress, and you could see the excitement of defeating this problem on his own, a few hints notwithstanding.

 

Then dad showed up, in another car, and stole his thunder. Dad changed the tyre, thanked me for the tools, gave a bob for a beer and they drove away... Saddest thing I witnessed in a long time.

 

 

[Mesterh]

14 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

It's a bloody sad state of affairs. I consider myself blessed to have grown up in a time and place where that cotton wool culture didn't affect me, at least not in the physical work side of things... Your comment about letting the kid get on with it and figure it out himself, hit home... Some weeks ago, a car broke down next to my van in town. Flat tyre, mother and teenage son in the car. Mother had an oxygen tube up her nose and the son was messing around in the boot. He was clearly struggling, so I offered him my toolbox. "I've never changed a tyre before" he said. I didn't offer to do it for them, as this was clearly a golden opportunity for him to get stuck in.

 

I sat on a bench and watch him thrashing the car around with the tyre iron. "Try putting the hand break on". He couldn't get the jack to work. "Try feeling under the car for a ridge - the ridge goes in the slot on the top of your jack, that way it stays put"... "Try loosening all the nuts a bit before you jack up the car, that way the wheel won't spin..." And so on. He was making progress, and you could see the excitement of defeating this problem on his own, a few hints notwithstanding.

 

Then dad showed up, in another car, and stole his thunder. Dad changed the tyre, thanked me for the tools, gave a bob for a beer and they drove away... Saddest thing I witnessed in a long time.

 

 

Jesus. 

Just help them out maybe rather than just sit there gloating.

 

Did you video it so you can post it on social media I wonder.

 

Sad reading indeed.

 

[Stubby]

8 hours ago, Mesterh said:

Jesus. 

Just help them out maybe rather than just sit there gloating.

 

Did you video it so you can post it on social media I wonder.

 

Sad reading indeed.

 

I think you missed the point. Also as far as I could tell there was no gloating just helpful suggestions when a problem occurred . The only sad bit of reading was when the Dad came and finished it off . 

[Haironyourchest]

10 hours ago, Mesterh said:

Jesus. 

Just help them out maybe rather than just sit there gloating.

 

Did you video it so you can post it on social media I wonder.

 

Sad reading indeed.

 

Yeah, you read it completely backwards pal, but maybe that's my fault, I could have given a more detailed explanation... As the situation commenced, I didn't offer to help as it *could* have been insulting to the kid. He was driving, so around 17 I'd guess. I stayed in my van and monitored the situation. As it became clear he wasnt up to the challenge, tool wise, I tactfully offered some tools, which were clearly needed. The male ego, especially the young ego, can be a delicate thing. One doesn't want to "overhelp" another man, unless asked. It's not polite, in my view.

 

So, I sat on a bench on the sidewalk and watched. Would you have preferred I got back in my van and watched from there? Or stood right behind him as he worked on the tyre? I had to position myself somewhere, after all. Bench seemed like a respectful distance, not crowding, not unavailable should he ask for help. My proximity on the bench was a message to him that I was available to physically help if requested.

 

So I let him get on with it, as I'd prefer a stranger to let me get on with it. Only after it became clear he was out of his depth, and he confessed he never changed a tyre before did I offer advice. TBO I forget at which point in the undertaking he said he had never changed a tyre. Could have been at the start, could have been when he was figuring out the jack, but whatever - at the time I took the admission to be a request for direction. I got the strong vibe he wanted to do it himself, and was asking for advice, not physical assistance. Just how I read the situation and I could have been wrong.

 

It's a great gift to let someone conquer a challenge on their own. Verbal direction doesn't take much away from the victory and in this case it was needed. A fine line between shoving my oar in and emasculating the kid, or mentoring him to exercise his own capability.

 

When his dad rocked up, I could see the disappointment in the lad's face, plain as day. Daddy was an impatient, take charge, dominant type. The family dynamic playing out before me, was this lad had never been allowed to try on his own.

 

One time, a friend wanted to learn to butcher a deer. He asked me if I ever found a roadkill deer to call him and let him try. The day came, and we went to work on the carcass. He had a go, but I skinned and butchered 90% of the job myself, as the flies were gathering and I didn't want to be there all day and also didn't want him to make mincemeat of it. I was going to eat this animal after all. He was crestfallen, and he let me know. He made me promise that if he ever acquired a deer of his own, I would stand by but let him do it all on his own, even if he made a hames of it. I felt damn guilty about it, as I'd robbed him of a valuable learning experience... Not quite the same as the tyre thing, but you get the idea...

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Haironyourchest

[difflock]

29 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

Yeah, you read it completely backwards pal, but maybe that's my fault, I could have given a more detailed explanation... As the situation commenced, I didn't offer to help as it *could* have been insulting to the kid. He was driving, so around 17 I'd guess. I stayed in my van and monitored the situation. As it became clear he wasnt up to the challenge, tool wise, I tactfully offered some tools, which were clearly needed. The male ego, especially the young ego, can be a delicate thing. One doesn't want to "overhelp" another man, unless asked. It's not polite, in my view.

 

So, I sat on a bench on the sidewalk and watched. Would you have preferred I got back in my van and watched from there? Or stood right behind him as he worked on the tyre? I had to position myself somewhere, after all. Bench seemed like a respectful distance, not crowding, not unavailable should he ask for help. My proximity on the bench was a message to him that I was available to physically help if requested.

 

So I let him get on with it, as I'd prefer a stranger to let me get on with it. Only after it became clear he was out of his depth, and he confessed he never changed a tyre before did I offer advice. TBO I forget at which point in the undertaking he said he had never changed a tyre. Could have been at the start, could have been when he was figuring out the jack, but whatever - at the time I took the admission to be a request for direction. I got the strong vibe he wanted to do it himself, and was asking for advice, not physical assistance. Just how I read the situation and I could have been wrong.

 

It's a great gift to let someone conquer a challenge on their own. Verbal direction doesn't take much away from the victory and in this case it was needed. A fine line between shoving my oar in and emasculating the kid, or mentoring him to exercise his own capability.

 

When his dad rocked up, I could see the disappointment in the lad's face, plain as day. Daddy was an impatient, take charge, dominant type. The family dynamic playing out before me, was this lad had never been allowed to try on his own.

 

One time, a friend wanted to learn to butcher a deer. He asked me if I ever found a roadkill deer to call him and let him try. The day came, and we went to work on the carcass. He had a go, but I skinned and butchered 90% of the job myself, as the flies were gathering and I didn't want to be there all day and also didn't want him to make mincemeat of it. I was going to eat this animal after all. He was crestfallen, and he let me know. He made me promise that if he ever acquired a deer of his own, I would stand by but let him do it all on his own, even if he made a hames of it. I felt damn guilty about it, as I'd robbed him of a valuable learning experience... Not quite the same as the tyre thing, but you get the idea...

 

 

 

Well explained.

[Doug Tait]

35 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

Yeah, you read it completely backwards pal, but maybe that's my fault, I could have given a more detailed explanation... As the situation commenced, I didn't offer to help as it *could* have been insulting to the kid. He was driving, so around 17 I'd guess. I stayed in my van and monitored the situation. As it became clear he wasnt up to the challenge, tool wise, I tactfully offered some tools, which were clearly needed. The male ego, especially the young ego, can be a delicate thing. One doesn't want to "overhelp" another man, unless asked. It's not polite, in my view.

 

So, I sat on a bench on the sidewalk and watched. Would you have preferred I got back in my van and watched from there? Or stood right behind him as he worked on the tyre? I had to position myself somewhere, after all. Bench seemed like a respectful distance, not crowding, not unavailable should he ask for help. My proximity on the bench was a message to him that I was available to physically help if requested.

 

So I let him get on with it, as I'd prefer a stranger to let me get on with it. Only after it became clear he was out of his death, and he confessed he never changed a tyre before did I offer advice. TBO I forget at which point in the undertaking he said he had never changed a tyre. Could have been at the start, could have been when he was figuring out the jack, but whatever - at the time I took the admission to be a request for direction. I got the strong vibe he wanted to do it himself, and was asking for advice, not physical assistance. Just how I read the situation and I could have been wrong.

 

It's a great gift to let someone conquer a challenge on their own. Verbal direction doesn't take much away from the victory and in this case it was needed. A fine line between shoving my oar in and emasculating the kid, or mentoring him to exercise his own capability.

 

When his dad rocked up, I could see the disappointment in the lad's face, plain as day. Daddy was an impatient, take charge, dominant type. The family dynamic playing out before me, was this lad had never been allowed to try on his own.

 

 

 

And I bet his Mum couldn't have been more proud of him! If you'd taken over she'd have been fleetingly grateful to you.

 

Few weeks back we were processing logs, boss said expect a visit from the woman living in the cottage near where we were working. She has foster children with learning difficulties and he wanted me to organise a load of the scrappy stuff to give her. We'd made a start throwing stuff off the ground into a trailer when she arrived with 3 shy, awkward young girls. She insisted they should do something so I kitted them out with ear defenders and gloves and they had great fun loading the trailer themselves. I tipped it at the cottage and they all got stuck in to stack them in a garage, no longer shy they were laughing and telling me stories about their dogs, one even teased me about looking like the miniature schnauzer!

They got a lot more benefit from that trailer of wood than if the lads had done it for them.

[Mesterh]

Ok fair enough, looks like I read it wrong.

 

I would have just helped to change the tyre. 

[Stubby]

1 minute ago, Mesterh said:

Ok fair enough, looks like I read it wrong.

 

I would have just helped to change the tyre. 

And that is not a "  wrong  " thing to do , at all , but , what happens the next time the young lad gets a flat out in the middle of the back of beyond , all on his jack jones ?

[Mick Dempsey]

6 minutes ago, Stubby said:

And that is not a "  wrong  " thing to do , at all , but , what happens the next time the young lad gets a flat out in the middle of the back of beyond , all on his jack jones ?

He calls his dad or the AA or whatever. 
He’s not going to get attacked by a werewolf on the moors cos he can’t change a tyre.

[Stubby]

1 minute ago, Mick Dempsey said:

He calls his dad or the AA or whatever. 
He’s not going to get attacked by a werewolf on the moors cos he can’t change a tyre.

Yea , maybe but I bet you could change a wheel at that age Mick 🙂