Extension Planning over a RPA

[Mick Dempsey]

3 minutes ago, slack ma girdle said:

The question should be:

How big is my Lime tree going to get?

Lime trees get big, and quickly. They cast heavy shade, have large leaves. 

You will have continual issues with blocked gutters, algae growing on shaded walls.

No matter how clever the design you will have a detrimental effect on the tree, which will lead the tree into slow decline, and regular unsympathetic heavy pruning.

‘Unsympathetic heavy pruning’……on a lime?

Some mistake surely? 
They love it.

 

[dumper]

12 hours ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

I have faith in bucket loads Mick - just not in this type of scenario. 
 

The cut and thrust of differing opinions is always a joy to behold - and some of it is even bears a passing resemblance to relevance at times. 
 

I didn’t / haven’t suggested chap goes away - I’ve just thrown my tuppence worth into the mix early on. 
 

Get someone credible to come round and have a proper look at it. That is my considered contribution to the questions - I stand by it as the best advice that’ll be available here - all I’ve done is circumvent all the pish and drivel that will be proffered. Granted there may be a couple of gems in amongst the nonsensical rantings but it’s Saturday night 

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Ok but answer the question who should he get to look at it

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, dumper said:

Ok but answer the question who should he get to look at it

The perennial ‘problem’ is homeowner PD applications or architects that don’t have a pet arborist on call.  Both end up with lose - lose situations. 
 

Location is key - where is the application site - then somebody might say they can have a look. 
 

It never going to give the impression of being the sort of job a genuinely engaged, passionate and professional Arb would drop tools to seek out because it starts by giving the impression that the extension is a foregone conclusion and minimal expense is required to solve the problem. 
 

Hold my beer while I completely re-schedule my diary....
 

 

[Chrissio]

On 30/07/2022 at 09:34, Sutton said:

You need to understand the mindset of planners. Your three questions are dependent on many variables so the procedural experts here on this forum may not be able to offer much with what you've given so far.

 

Lets start with the tree itself. Is your 5 metre distance to the trunk or the outermost edge of the crown?

 

 

Crikey, thank you everyone for the considered responses. I'll reply to each point here:

 

Sutton, in answer to your question, the house is currently 10m from the trunk. The tree is fully grown at 19m. The crown is asymmetric, being 4m on the side of the extension and actually wouldn't overhang the proposed extension (which would be around 5m). 

 

On 30/07/2022 at 10:13, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

You’d be better off spending whatever time / money / effort you think your project warrants   Trying to find a credible local professional to visit the site and provide you with a properly informed opinion / recommendation(s)

 

 

I will be doing this, no doubt about it, but I value the broad set of opinions on this site too. 

 

On 30/07/2022 at 10:35, John Shutler said:

although you might be able to use a piled solution you need to investigate what impact the design might have on floor levels in the property. in simple terms if the piled solution results in a floor level that is significantly higher than your existing floor levels would that work with a step in the room?

 

The other issue that the LPA will consider is wether there will be an increased pressure to fell or prune the tree in the future, unfortunately that is very difficult to argue against 

 

good luck 

This is a really good point. We could probably live with a step but ideally it would be flat- thanks for pointing this out. 

 

On 30/07/2022 at 17:30, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

Mheh.... 

 

it’s like me going in Sainsbury’s and munching my way through the fresh fruit aisles before I’ve gone through the check out. 
 

Except that, at least in Sainsbury’s Id have had a load of free fruit - all that’ll happen here is a load of contradictory waffle from well intentioned but, to all intents and purposes, ‘blind’ saw monkeys and desk jockeys that haven’t even seen the site nor understand local trends. 
 

On a scale of 1 to 10 - 1 being no chance and 10 being a dead certain - how likely is it that this thread will deliver anything worthwhile?

Munching stuff in Sainsbury's would be stealing. No theft going on here, people can choose to offer an opinion or move on. I'd liken it more to getting a broad set of thoughts to consider before I go to a specialist so that I can have a more informed and intelligent conversation. 

 

On 30/07/2022 at 22:08, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

I have faith in bucket loads Mick - just not in this type of scenario. 
 

The cut and thrust of differing opinions is always a joy to behold - and some of it is even bears a passing resemblance to relevance at times. 
 

I didn’t / haven’t suggested chap goes away - I’ve just thrown my tuppence worth into the mix early on. 
 

Get someone credible to come round and have a proper look at it. That is my considered contribution to the questions - I stand by it as the best advice that’ll be available here - all I’ve done is circumvent all the pish and drivel that will be proffered. Granted there may be a couple of gems in amongst the nonsensical rantings but it’s Saturday night 

It's Saturday night and it's time... - Old Brogue Irish Pub | By Old...

FB.WATCH

---

144 views, 2 likes, 2 loves, 0 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Old Brogue Irish Pub: It's Saturday night and...

 

 

On 30/07/2022 at 23:25, nepia said:

@Chrissio Have you considered the use of ground screws on which to build your extension?

We have a Planning App in for a Sussex barn (a bit different!) that will slightly overlap the RPA of a semi-mature oak.  The arb consultant doing the BS5837 survey thought it was a great idea and one that would minimise grief from Planning re the tree which isn't currently Preserved

This is really helpful Nepia. This is exactly the kind of insight I was looking for, thank you

 

20 hours ago, slack ma girdle said:

The question should be:

How big is my Lime tree going to get?

Lime trees get big, and quickly. They cast heavy shade, have large leaves. 

You will have continual issues with blocked gutters, algae growing on shaded walls.

No matter how clever the design you will have a detrimental effect on the tree, which will lead the tree into slow decline, and regular unsympathetic heavy pruning.

It's fully mature at 19m. I don't think it's ever been pruned! 

 

20 hours ago, Mick Dempsey said:

‘Unsympathetic heavy pruning’……on a lime?

Some mistake surely? 
They love it.

 

 

20 hours ago, dumper said:

Ok but answer the question who should he get to look at it

 

19 hours ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

The perennial ‘problem’ is homeowner PD applications or architects that don’t have a pet arborist on call.  Both end up with lose - lose situations. 
 

Location is key - where is the application site - then somebody might say they can have a look. 
 

It never going to give the impression of being the sort of job a genuinely engaged, passionate and professional Arb would drop tools to seek out because it starts by giving the impression that the extension is a foregone conclusion and minimal expense is required to solve the problem. 
 

Hold my beer while I completely re-schedule my diary....
 

 

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[Chrissio]

1 minute ago, Chrissio said:

 

Crikey, thank you everyone for the considered responses. I'll reply to each point here:

 

Sutton, in answer to your question, the house is currently 10m from the trunk. The tree is fully grown at 19m. The crown is asymmetric, being 4m on the side of the extension and actually wouldn't overhang the proposed extension (which would be around 5m). 

 

I will be doing this, no doubt about it, but I value the broad set of opinions on this site too. 

 

This is a really good point. We could probably live with a step but ideally it would be flat- thanks for pointing this out. 

 

Munching stuff in Sainsbury's would be stealing. No theft going on here, people can choose to offer an opinion or move on. I'd liken it more to getting a broad set of thoughts to consider before I go to a specialist so that I can have a more informed and intelligent conversation. 

 

 

This is really helpful Nepia. This is exactly the kind of insight I was looking for, thank you

 

It's fully mature at 19m. I don't think it's ever been pruned! 

 

 

 

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There is no foregone conclusion here. I'll either get planning for a suitable solution or I won't. If I don't get planning, I'll either live with what I have or move house, it's that simple. 

 

[difflock]

Moving the house sounds a rather extreme solution.

Edited August 1, 2022 by difflock

[Chrissio]

43 minutes ago, difflock said:

Moving the house sounds a rather extreme solution.

True but the extension isn't a foregone conclusion because of the potential difficulties and we need the space. 

[Anno]

Speaking as someone who would be assessing I would need to know - 

• condition of the tree and likely lifespan
• a plan with plotted RPA calculation
• future 'livability' issues
• extent of incursion
• details of 'no dig' methodology 

Details of the Arb Consultant who supplied the above.

[Sutton]

I was curious about the RPA calc too.

 

10 mtrs from existing house and a 5mtr extention over the RPA puts the stem over 80cm DBH - though unusual in suburbia - would mean the TO would need more than the usual "convincing".

 

Obviously the OP averaged the asymmetry and put on a couple of mtr on the RPA to be safe.

The odd crown shape indicates another tree was possibly removed recently. But again we haven't seen pictures, soil type, gradient etc so no real point in guessing.

 

The OP also needs to view the LPA policy guidelines of trees in the wider context of the area. A side extension means semi-detached at the least which means houses in the area will have bigger gardens which means more trees. Guidelines always account for the character of the vicinity.

 

Lastly, @slack ma girdle alluded to lime tree honeydew which can drift sideways rather than drop straight down.

 

@Chrissio as Kevin says, get in an expert, you might not get much from Arbtalk if you wont supply decent info.

 

Dont forget to update us with your consultant's prognosis after.

[Dan Maynard]

Wouldn't have thought 80cm is unreasonable if it's reached 19m height - not convinced it'll stop there though.