Oak shrinkage for outdoor use

[doobin]

I've seen first hand how joinery built oak gates costing over £2.5k can move with the seasons. Luckily the joiner was local and came out to sort it on two occasions.

 

The joiner was a very switched on young guy, the gate was designed on a CAD program and he told me how he'd allowed more than usual for expansion in the T+G, but he'd be allowing even more next time! 😲 He was pretty shocked.

 

With this rustic build, I'll probably end up somewhere in the middle. Mill it soon and finally get round to building it six months later.

[muttley9050]

Green or seasoned completely depends on the design of the gate.
With the right joints it can be built green but you will have to allow for the shrinkage in the posts.
A picture of style of gate would be useful.

[doobin]

8 minutes ago, muttley9050 said:

Green or seasoned completely depends on the design of the gate.
With the right joints it can be built green but you will have to allow for the shrinkage in the posts.
A picture of style of gate would be useful.

Three horizontals with the vertical nailed onto them. No joints, just two diagonal braces.

[dumper]

Don’t forget to use stainless fixings marine grade if you don’t want stains, might look good with dowels 

[Macpherson]

1 hour ago, dumper said:

Don’t forget to use stainless fixings marine grade if you don’t want stains,

Yep, that's what I do and it can look really classy.. there's quite a few online chandlers selling all manner of fixtures and fittings in highly polished 316 stainless and often fairly reasonably priced 👍

[muttley9050]

Three horizontals with the vertical nailed onto them. No joints, just two diagonal braces.

If I really wanted to make that green out of oak I would slot the clearance holes for the screws so the boards can move freely. Giving it 6 months to dry is a much better shout. But still slot at least one of the holes per board on each horizontal.

You will probably find fixings will need tightening up in 6 months so I wouldn't dowel them.

[trigger_andy]

Timber Framers use green wood/Oak. These structures last 3-400 years and still look good but more importantly do the job they where designed to do. 
 

When I think of a gate I envision a Suffolk 5 Bar or something close to that. Wasting time and effort seasoning the timber first seems pointless to me.

A good mate of mine is an Oak Framer, some of his builds is (in my opinion) are breathtaking, it’s one of the reasons I started messing around with wood. He builds green gates and pumps them out regularly. His own extravagant gates are green oak. They have been in 5 years now. 
 

I’ve started taking what is seen as gospel here with a good measure of salt. 
 

M&T T&G gate I’d give the oak a year to acclimatize. Seems like a fussy gate. 

[muttley9050]

"More imprtanly they do the job they are designed to do"
Exactly they are designed to be built using joints that are suitable for green oak construction.
A screwed Ledged and braced gate isn't this.
Yes you can do it. Yes it will be OK.
But will it still fit well and look better in 5 years time like a well weathered gate would. I doubt it.
Id rather follow well known standards in timber construction for my employ.
If I build a gate like the op wants it would be made from softwood or seasoned oak at around 20% moisture ideally.
You just have to make a gate of different construction for a quality green oak gate

[doobin]

This is what the customer wants replicating, using the original fittings. It’s pretty rustic to say the least 

[Johnsond]

28 minutes ago, doobin said:

This is what the customer wants replicating, using the original fittings. It’s pretty rustic to say the least 

Yep that’s defo on the extremely rustic side of rustic 😳