Ivy IS a real problem

[Mick Dempsey]

39 minutes ago, scottythepinetree said:

Surely this thread is pointless. It is literally asking for anecdotal evidence to support an unsubstantiated hypothesis.

You shouldn't be looking for opinion if you believe that there is a problem. You should be looking for evidence. For what it's worth. I'm working with trees since 2002 in a number of capacities (climber, utility, team lead, safety manager). I haven't noticed any difference in the last 20 years. 

This means absolutely nothing however. You really need to begin measuring and collecting some form of concrete data. This will probably take a number of years before any sort of pattern emerges, but then this is one of the challenges of studying trees. The data is often multi-generational. Trees live a lot longer than us.

In 3-5 years or more, if you measure a percentage increase in Ivy covered trees or trees failing due to Ivy, then maybe you have thread, but for now, you really don't.

What is the result that you are hoping for? Reach a consensus on an unsubstantiated claim? Have a number of experienced Arbs propagate that claim amongst their colleagues and clients? Because without data, that is the only thing that can possibly come of this thread.

Or the alternative, which is to ignore a problem that hasn't been proven to exist. Which seems like the better option?

He’s been ‘escorted to the door’ of the forum a few days back, so he won’t see this. 

[doobin]

8 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

He’s been ‘escorted to the door’ of the forum a few days back, so he won’t see this. 

Thank god for that. 

[Doug Tait]

It got well and truly under his skin though, I get the feeling he'll still be reading this, in a non-member/unable to comment kind of fashion.

 

Hello Cambridge, hope you've relaxed a bit "buddy" 👍

Edited April 25, 2022 by Doug Tait

[Dan Maynard]

My reflection is that I'm still not totally sure how much it was actually about the ivy. Why did he even come back to revisit this when he got the same response a few months ago? 

 

Guess we'll never know.

[Dan Maynard]

1 hour ago, scottythepinetree said:

Surely this thread is pointless. It is literally asking for anecdotal evidence to support an unsubstantiated hypothesis.

You shouldn't be looking for opinion if you believe that there is a problem. You should be looking for evidence. For what it's worth. I'm working with trees since 2002 in a number of capacities (climber, utility, team lead, safety manager). I haven't noticed any difference in the last 20 years. 

This means absolutely nothing however. You really need to begin measuring and collecting some form of concrete data. This will probably take a number of years before any sort of pattern emerges, but then this is one of the challenges of studying trees. The data is often multi-generational. Trees live a lot longer than us.

In 3-5 years or more, if you measure a percentage increase in Ivy covered trees or trees failing due to Ivy, then maybe you have thread, but for now, you really don't.

What is the result that you are hoping for? Reach a consensus on an unsubstantiated claim? Have a number of experienced Arbs propagate that claim amongst their colleagues and clients? Because without data, that is the only thing that can possibly come of this thread.

Or the alternative, which is to ignore a problem that hasn't been proven to exist. Which seems like the better option?

Absolutely spot on analysis though imho.

[Mick Dempsey]

Just now, Dan Maynard said:

My reflection is that I'm still not totally sure how much it was actually about the ivy. Why did he even come back to revisit this when he got the same response a few months ago? 

 

Guess we'll never know.

I think he got addicted to the drama and attention. 

[Doug Tait]

33 minutes ago, doobin said:

Thank god for that. 

Give Steve Bullman the credit! God works in mysterious ways

[Guest Gimlet]

Given that the two wild species of ivy in the UK are native, they will have been here since the ice age. If they were an ecological menace and posed a threat to some tree species, I think we would have noticed by now.  

 

A more interesting question would have been, why does ivy appear to prefer some tree species to others? It seems able to find purchase equally well of both smooth and rough textured bark, so why do some trees seem to attract it like a magnate? 

And why do you often see dead and nearly dead elders completely smothered in the stuff but far less often ivy covering a healthy elder? Can ivy detect imminent mortality? Does it prefer dead or dying wood, and if so why?

 

Not hypotheses at all, just random observations, made because having thought about ivy and its habits, the more interesting and sometimes odd the plant becomes. 

 

There are so many more questions to ask than:

 

"I say ivy is a real and increasing threat to trees. You lot work with trees, so you agree with me don't you?"

"Well, no, not really."

"Bastards. You're all trolls and nobody loves me." 

 

Funny, but not terribly scientific.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Gimlet

[Stubby]

32 minutes ago, Doug Tait said:

Give Steve Bullman the credit! God works in mysterious ways

Steve Bullman for God ? Yea , why not . Gets my vote . 😀

[Steve Bullman]

5 minutes ago, Gimlet said:

why do you often see dead and nearly dead elders completely smothered in the stuff but far less often ivy covering a healthy elder? 

Is say the answer to that one is quite simple, the ivy on a dead tree will have far more direct sunlight to grow