Russia Invades ukraine

[GarethM]

37 minutes ago, daveatdave said:

it reminds me of what Neville chamberlain was saying when he came back from meeting Hitler in 1939 

C'mon, he's not even seen the great escape.

There are probably uncontacted tribes in the Amazon that have seen the great escape!.

[GarethM]

You are old enough to have practically watched the full film by osmosis and every other post WW2 epic that's almost baked into the DNA of the british!.

 

A full restoration isn't a peace negotiation, give and take are a required.

 

A similar scheme didn't work well post WW1 with the Germans, plus the coal and other stuff they had to pay the allies in reparations effectively forced the second disagreement into being.

[peds]

"Again, to stress, Ukraine should be restored to 100%. But in this age of awful people seemingly acting with total impunity, I'm not optimistic."

 

Hear, hear.

Edited February 26 by peds

[Mark Bolam]

46 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

I'm just not that old 😁

 

You asked me to provide a suggestion that you regarded as realistic. Of course, I fully believe that Ukraine should have it's borders restored to pre-2014, but with the f**kwit Russian asset in the Whitehouse, is that is remotely likely? 

 

Another question to ask is, what would Ukraine gain by holding on for complete reunification? Russia has effectively ethnically cleansed the occupied areas of Ukrainians, so how Ukrainian are they now? Peace for 90% of Ukraine is better than 80% of Ukraine at war to take back the 20% that doesn't contain any Ukrainians anymore.

Again, to stress, Ukraine should be restored to 100%. But in this age of awful people seemingly acting with total impunity, I'm not optimistic.

 

That’s a good, sensible post J.

 

I’m quite jealous of you never having seen The Great Escape.

You’re in for a treat!

[GarethM]

13 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

 

That’s a good, sensible post J.

 

I’m quite jealous of you never having seen The Great Escape.

You’re in for a treat!

Don't spoil the ending!

[Steven P]

56 minutes ago, GarethM said:

A full restoration isn't a peace negotiation, give and take are a required.

 

But it is a fantastic starting point for negotiations rather than Trumps opening gambit of Russia retains all that they have taken, no room for territorial negotiation after then. Plus the '500 billion' charge just to let The Ukraine enter the negotiating table in the first place.

 

Preference opening gambit would be return their land plus pay for damages caused and work from there.

[GarethM]

17 minutes ago, Steven P said:

 

But it is a fantastic starting point for negotiations rather than Trumps opening gambit of Russia retains all that they have taken, no room for territorial negotiation after then. Plus the '500 billion' charge just to let The Ukraine enter the negotiating table in the first place.

 

Preference opening gambit would be return their land plus pay for damages caused and work from there.

And how many billions has the USA given, not loaned but given to them ?.

 

It won't be an opening gambit, you mark out your position and they've agreed a basic agreement, it's the Chinese saving face art of negotiation.

 

Negotiation is not like taking your indecisive gf to dinner, where they spent 20 minutes perusing and talking about the menu, then ordering the same basic fish n chips.

 

Plus the negotiations are window dressing, the big wigs do f all. Ever notice the EU stuff, they all bugger off for a meal and it's all miraculously agreed ?.

Edited February 26 by GarethM

[sime42]

20 hours ago, peds said:

*your

 

When you are asked a question you don't understand, start speaking without knowing where you are going and have to wing it:

 

 

 

 

Macron's reaction to that dump of words is the best thing about that clip. The cameraman couldn't help but break the rule about focusing on the speaker.

[Steven P]

25 minutes ago, GarethM said:

And how many billions has the USA given, not loaned but given to them ?.

 

Less than Europe has... but it is the right thing to do as well.

 

Got to split your head away from your apparent stance that money = morals. It does not. Doing the right thing sometimes costs money.

[GarethM]

14 minutes ago, Steven P said:

 

Less than Europe has... but it is the right thing to do as well.

 

Got to split your head away from your apparent stance that money = morals. It does not. Doing the right thing sometimes costs money.

I wouldn't mind if it was a loan, we paid the USA for all our stuff during WW2 including liberty ships.

 

Europe hasn't given them missiles like the USA has, the Germans still haven't as it effectively takes them to war. As all targeting is done by whoever provides them, same with storm shadow wasn't that what we sent?.

 

"European countries have provided €132 billion in aid (military, financial and humanitarian) as of December 2024, and the United States has provided €114 billion.[5] Most of the US funding supports American industries who produce weapons and military equipment.[6]" from Wikipedia.

Edited February 26 by GarethM