New 3.5t tipper

[dumper]

But how have they got more power? By removing weight from engine components, increasing compression and bigger turbo running more boost, admittedly they have also tuned the engines better and they are more fuel efficient, but my recent experiences with Ford transit engines and new defender engines is that when they go wrong under warranty the dealers just exchange the engine, twice on my transit new engines have a very short working life I doubt you will see many of today's engines going to 250000 miles plus

[Mick Dempsey]

So what?

How many engines from 30 years ago reached 250k and are still going?

Where are all these 20/30/40 year old vehicles? Fooked, crushed and recycled that’s where.

The engine is now a consumable, send it back for fixing or recycling.

The fuel pump went on my old Ford Ranger (the old Mazda based one) not economical to to repair, gave it away and bought a new one.

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Mick Dempsey

[Dbikeguy]

Take a look on the Ranger forums, loads of head and turbo issues on the 2.0 engine. HP means nothing in our world, it’s all about torque.
‘HP is about how fast you hit the wall,torque is how far you move it’

I’m in a mk6 Hilux that needs a remap really, new one isn’t much quicker, isn’t much better on fuel, costs 30k for a basic new one. It also gets add blue, regens ever 5 minutes etc etc

I can fix mine at home very easily meaning little down time, warranty is great but they don’t make you a priority and a week with a hire vehicle is a lost week in our game, very few courtesy cars have tow bars if you even get a pickup.

[openspaceman]

46 minutes ago, dumper said:

But how have they got more power?

By stuffing more air into the engine and injecting in the fuel much faster and finer.

Quote

By removing weight from engine components,

I wonder about this, is a modern 2 litre transit engine lighter than the old duratorq 2.4?  The thing is the cubic capacity of the engine doesn't matter once you have a supercharger (turbo) an engine depends on  the mass of air it consumes and how near to stoichiometric fuelling you can get to plus how near to burning it all before the power stroke has started.

 

After that the components like block, head and cranks etc. have to withstand the forces and this will lead to them being equally massive.

Quote

 

increasing compression and bigger turbo running more boost,

Yes increased pressure but probably lower compression ratio as you are now forcing more mass of air into a smaller swept volume.

Quote

 

admittedly they have also tuned the engines better and they are more fuel efficient, but my recent experiences with Ford transit engines and new defender engines is that when they go wrong under warranty the dealers just exchange the engine, twice on my transit new engines have a very short working life I doubt you will see many of today's engines going to 250000 miles plus

When I last had to deal with a cooked transit 2.4 engine it was far cheaper to buy a new engine at £2000ish than attempt to rebuild the old, the gasket set alone was £500 but that was several years ago and only one out of a fleet of 6. They tended to start having injector pump problems at 130k miles but that only cost a few hundred.

Edited January 9, 2022 by openspaceman
spelling

[Mick Dempsey]

15 minutes ago, Dbikeguy said:

Take a look on the Ranger forums, loads of head and turbo issues on the 2.0 engine. HP means nothing in our world, it’s all about torque.
‘HP is about how fast you hit the wall,torque is how far you move it’

I’m in a mk6 Hilux that needs a remap really, new one isn’t much quicker, isn’t much better on fuel, costs 30k for a basic new one. It also gets add blue, regens ever 5 minutes etc etc

I can fix mine at home very easily meaning little down time, warranty is great but they don’t make you a priority and a week with a hire vehicle is a lost week in our game, very few courtesy cars have tow bars if you even get a pickup.

I had a Mk6, lot of turbo lag and gutless by modern standards, nice looking truck though.

[lux]

The ‘no replacement for displacement’ sounds good and to an extent is true.
 
But go back 20 years and the hilux turbo 2.4 knocked out 110hp now my Ranger knocks out 150hp at 2.2.
 
Engines are more efficient whilst using less fuel.

A 3.0 Capri was knocked into a cocked hat by a 1.8 golf.
Formula 1 now use a 1.6 liter engine producing similar HPs to the older 3 liters, they’re more reliable as well, rarely does an F1 engine let go compared to the days of Mansell etc.
 
Only the yanks with their cheap fuel run those big lazy engines.
 
 
 

Horse power is a misleading figure in working vehicle terms.

A 1.8 golf will have more bhp than the Ford Ranger.

An 18 t lorry has the same sort of horse power as a sporty estate car

Not even worth looking at horse power figures on vans. Down to torque and how it’s geared.

Modern engines are more efficient and burn cleaner with less pollution but they use more fuel to do it.

Anyone buying a new tipper just needs to buy the best they can realistically afford. The least abused and most looked after

My mk7 2.4 transit has been superb. Hard to find a good clean sensible mileage one now though.

Worst thing I’ve driven of late is the 1.9 Isuzu grafter. What a miserable van that is in every respect.

[Dbikeguy]

I had a Mk6, lot of turbo lag and gutless by modern standards, nice looking truck though.

Remapping and a uprated clutch solve the lag issues
it’s no race car but 170k with no more than a injector refurb so i’m happy

[Mick Dempsey]

1 minute ago, Dbikeguy said:

 

Remapping and a uprated clutch solve the lag issues
it’s no race car but 170k with no more than a injector refurb so i’m happy

 

Well yeah, and a remap, you don’t see the irony in that?

Edited January 9, 2022 by Mick Dempsey

[Mick Dempsey]

24 minutes ago, lux said:

Horse power is a misleading figure in working vehicle terms.

A 1.8 golf will have more bhp than the Ford Ranger.

An 18 t lorry has the same sort of horse power as a sporty estate car

Not even worth looking at horse power figures on vans. Down to torque and how it’s geared.

Modern engines are more efficient and burn cleaner with less pollution but they use more fuel to do it.

Anyone buying a new tipper just needs to buy the best they can realistically afford. The least abused and most looked after

My mk7 2.4 transit has been superb. Hard to find a good clean sensible mileage one now though.

Worst thing I’ve driven of late is the 1.9 Isuzu grafter. What a miserable van that is in every respect.




 

I’ll freely admit the torque/horsepower thing is a little beyond me, I get it but not completely.

 

But I’ve driven 4wd pickups starting with the non turbo hilux in 98 to now.

The improvement in power is amazing, towing a 3.5 tonne load was nerve racking back then, up and down the box, dreading hills on the motorway, an embarrassment tbh, these days a piece of cake.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Mick Dempsey

[Dbikeguy]

Well yeah, and a remap, you don’t see the irony in that?

Not at all, they are tuned to deal with crap fuel that we generally don’t get over here so a mild tweak not chasing high hp numbers is like tweaking the carb on a saw to get the best from it vs a generic tune.
Would be a rolling road live map not a generic code flash.

A new 2.0 truck with 260bhp sounds ace but will be under far more stress than it needs to be just chasing a number.

i’d rather a bigger diesel (prob american) to get those numbers with added bonus of double the torque nm but it’s not an option in the uk.