Future Firewood Demand Optimism?

[Puffingbilly413]

7 hours ago, openspaceman said:

You too are missing the point like @Big J's guardian reader. As @Woodworks says if the stonework is insulated outside the  insulation can prevent solar gain, thus keeping the inside cooler

No I’m not - I agreed with the point. I was just saying I like my house cool inside in the summer.  I believe I acknowledged J’s point about insulation…

[openspaceman]

4 hours ago, Rob_the_Sparky said:

I don't know any details but for sure a pond can be used but it might have to be quite large.  One of the University of Surrey's buildings is heated using this technique but the pond is actually quite a sizable lake.  Interesting about the amount of heat from the core.

 

wrt solar hot water:

How do you avoid boiling the tank if not using water fast enough?  If you size the panels to be useful in winter then in summer the power is just going to be far too much. (also going on holiday might be an issue)

As most systems appear to be pumped, how do you prevent it boiling if the pump stops?

 

Both of these have been things stopping me moving beyond thinking about it.

My second try at replying as lost first in cycberspace. Twenty years ago I did a lot of work in UniS grounds and woodlands and wasn't aware of that. They now have a woodburner at the sports complex. I guess the sizeable lake is also heating a sizeable building. The thing about a natural pond is that the  coupling with groundwater exchanges more heat and as @Billhook says a running river is picking up heat as it travels. Also water is good at absorbing infra red radiation from the sun.

 

I wouldn't worry about solar thermal over heating in this country and even if it did there are ways to deal with it, freezing would be a bigger worry.

 

PS I experimented with flat plate collectors but with a small South west facing roof  opted for solar PV for the available space.

Edited October 25, 2021 by openspaceman

[openspaceman]

3 minutes ago, Puffingbilly413 said:

No I’m not - I agreed with the point. I was just saying I like my house cool inside in the summer.  I believe I acknowledged J’s point about insulation…

Okay  sorry if I misinterpreted. So we agree  good insulation  works both ways and a house with high thermal mass will have less temperature fluctuations with exterior insulation.

 

I still haven't attempted wall insulation  for my solid walls because it would destroy the look of the two tone bricks.

[Puffingbilly413]

Just now, openspaceman said:

Okay  sorry if I misinterpreted. So we agree  good insulation  works both ways and a house with high thermal mass will have less temperature fluctuations with exterior insulation.

 

I still haven't attempted wall insulation  for my solid walls because it would destroy the look of the two tone bricks.

We do indeed agree 😀

 

Yep there’s no way I’d be putting external insulation on our house, purely for aesthetic reasons. 

[Puffingbilly413]

10 hours ago, Woodworks said:

A stone built house with insulation on the outside is the best of all worlds IMO. All the stone is thermal mass so it doesn't fluctuate in temperature quickly. If you insulate the outside (EWI) in the winter all that stone gets warm and stays warm. In summer the insulation slows the walls heating up. And they wall will balance day/night temps

It’s an interesting one. Houses in the Ardèche in France (and elsewhere I guess too) have thick stone walls and it’s nice to feel some warmth off the walls inside at night after the stone has absorbed the heat of the summer sun during the day 

[Billhook]

4 hours ago, Rob_the_Sparky said:

I don't know any details but for sure a pond can be used but it might have to be quite large.  One of the University of Surrey's buildings is heated using this technique but the pond is actually quite a sizable lake.  Interesting about the amount of heat from the core.

 

wrt solar hot water:

How do you avoid boiling the tank if not using water fast enough?  If you size the panels to be useful in winter then in summer the power is just going to be far too much. (also going on holiday might be an issue)

As most systems appear to be pumped, how do you prevent it boiling if the pump stops?

 

Both of these have been things stopping me moving beyond thinking about it.

In the Summer the radiators are off and the heat is just for the hot water, but if it becomes too hot a valve opens and relieves it through the radiator system 

Bit like ground source heating in cold ground the solar is not much good in Winter in our dull climate, but for us it works well in the Summer

[arboriculturist]

Firewood has been at too low a price for sometime. 

With the rise in oil and gas prices now is the time to follow suit. £130 for Hardwood now and it's made little difference to sales - remember it can take up to 5 times as long to grow / tonne as softwood.

I suggest everyone follows suit as it's too easy to fall into the trap of being a busy fool without realising it.

[Billhook]

1 hour ago, arboriculturist said:

Firewood has been at too low a price for sometime. 

With the rise in oil and gas prices now is the time to follow suit. £130 for Hardwood now and it's made little difference to sales - remember it can take up to 5 times as long to grow / tonne as softwood.

I suggest everyone follows suit as it's too easy to fall into the trap of being a busy fool without realising it.

Good man!  Must make the most of the current opportunity in the high prices of gas, oil and electricity

As My dear old dad used to say  "'tis an ill wind that blows nobody any good"

It is just the same in farming, wheat should be five times its current price and so should firewood.  Values become lost when inflation takes hold.

[daveatdave]

what if (as i know nothing ) ground and air heat pumps has taken up in the future will it take heat out of the planet and bring on a ice age will it affect the soil insects  same as taking heat out of ponds/lakes instead of 2inch of ice will it be 6 inch the bottom will be colder will it have a effect on the fish and other life in them ?

[Big J]

8 hours ago, arboriculturist said:

Firewood has been at too low a price for sometime. 

With the rise in oil and gas prices now is the time to follow suit. £130 for Hardwood now and it's made little difference to sales - remember it can take up to 5 times as long to grow / tonne as softwood.

I suggest everyone follows suit as it's too easy to fall into the trap of being a busy fool without realising it.

 

I take your point, but (objectively) as a form of heating, £130/cube is much to expensive. We get through a cube a week if it's properly cold. 

 

It's the massive inefficiency in the whole process from start to finish in the UK that means that we have to charge so much more. I'm in Sweden this week and a cube of perfect, dry birch logs is £50 delivered. That's standard. But then everything is harvester cut here, there is a flawless road network and production is quick and easy.

 

But then think of the work we have to do to produce a cube in the UK. At least with us, the job we're on presently, much of the timber is winched, it's then processed by hand (with assistance from a 14 tonner with a grab). There is a primary extraction by little forwarder to trackside and then a secondary extraction by tractor/trailer. 

 

Then the lorries that come to site only have one way in and one way out due to half a dozen width restricted roads and weak bridges. So conceivably there could be a customer a mile from site that would have to haul the timber 10 miles to avoid those.

 

Then the cost of production is sky high too. Yard space is rare and at a premium now due to so many barns being converted for housing under the class Q planning exemption. What you can find is often wholly inadequate, muddy, doesn't have 3 phase, doesn't have lorry access etc. And all the planning issues about change of use and NIMBY neighbours who will happily buy your logs whilst dobbing you into planning because their utopian vision of rural life doesn't actually include anyone working rurally.

 

Then there is staffing. It's so hard to find reasonable, reliable guys to process logs at a fair price. 

 

And then there is delivery - trying to shoehorn your delivery vehicle down daft little lanes and driveways to drop off only 1 or 2 cube at a time because no one will order in advance. 

 

My point is this. £130 is way too much for a cubic metre of firewood, objectively. But within the nuthouse that is the UK it becomes subjectively justifiable. The cost of doing business here is extremely high.