The woodsure scheme, do we need it?

[Stubby]

2 hours ago, Cob-logging said:

Hi just read all this all my logs are ready to burn just sold 3 cubic to a regular customer who has read all of this on government site and now he wonts them cheaper because he has to dry them which he doesn’t so all of this is very confusing for everyone 

may turn them into charcoal then it be 0 on the meter 

Its bollox . Tell him they are the same as he has always burnt from you and he won't go to prison !

[Cob-logging]

My words down to to the bollicks mate 

[Vedhoggar]

3 hours ago, Cob-logging said:

Hi just read all this all my logs are ready to burn just sold 3 cubic to a regular customer who has read all of this on government site and now he wonts them cheaper because he has to dry them which he doesn’t so all of this is very confusing for everyone 

may turn them into charcoal then it be 0 on the meter 

The price quoted/advertised is the price you sell at and what a customer is expected to pay. That government notice referred to is actually nonsense ... why would anyone need to dry firewood for further 2 yrs which is down to <20% is beyond me! 

[Steven P]

A couple of comments today..

First calibrate the meter and then measure a freshly split surface to get the best reading.”

 

So for everyone who knows these things, how do I calibrate a moisture meter that a domestic user might use? I can spend hundreds on a meter and calibration device (just checked, prices in dollars for a quick check but $600 was the sort of starting price), but for the sub £30 meter.....

(engineering head here, bung a known value electrical resistor across the terminals will give a consistent value as a check it is still reading that value next time but I am not sure an inspector would accept that "Yeah, I jus test it with this" unless it is a commercial product)

 

[openspaceman]

4 hours ago, Steven P said:

A couple of comments today..

First calibrate the meter and then measure a freshly split surface to get the best reading.”

 

So for everyone who knows these things, how do I calibrate a moisture meter that a domestic user might use? I can spend hundreds on a meter and calibration device (just checked, prices in dollars for a quick check but $600 was the sort of starting price), but for the sub £30 meter.....

(engineering head here, bung a known value electrical resistor across the terminals will give a consistent value as a check it is still reading that value next time but I am not sure an inspector would accept that "Yeah, I jus test it with this" unless it is a commercial product)

 

I made a minor attempt at calibrating my meter

 

https://arbtalk.co.uk/forums/topic/125741-valiant-moisture-meter/?do=findComment&comment=1887034

 

I'd need to do the same for a large number of samples to get any idea of accuracy and precision, or lack thereof.

 

[Vedhoggar]

4 hours ago, Steven P said:

A couple of comments today..

First calibrate the meter and then measure a freshly split surface to get the best reading.”

 

So for everyone who knows these things, how do I calibrate a moisture meter that a domestic user might use? I can spend hundreds on a meter and calibration device (just checked, prices in dollars for a quick check but $600 was the sort of starting price), but for the sub £30 meter.....

(engineering head here, bung a known value electrical resistor across the terminals will give a consistent value as a check it is still reading that value next time but I am not sure an inspector would accept that "Yeah, I jus test it with this" unless it is a commercial product)

 

You could consider just purchasing a Valiant moisture meter as Valiant say that their meter has been tested by Hetas/Woodsure for several years and claim it is accurate for measuring the moisture as a percentage of water/total weight i.e "wet basis" (see post by Cessna on Monday). Cost of meter from Valiant £21.99 or Hetas £18.50. Moisture meters are only ever going to give an approximate indication of the moisture content anyway, pin meters are sensitive to temperature (they are affected by wood temperature, air temperature, temperature of meter itself) as well as chemical composition of the of wood, the battery power at times can influence readings I find and pins often bend which affects readings too. 

[Steven P]

3 hours ago, Vedhoggar said:

You could consider just purchasing a Valiant moisture meter as Valiant say that their meter has been tested by Hetas/Woodsure for several years and claim it is accurate for measuring the moisture as a percentage of water/total weight i.e "wet basis" (see post by Cessna on Monday). Cost of meter from Valiant £21.99 or Hetas £18.50. Moisture meters are only ever going to give an approximate indication of the moisture content anyway, pin meters are sensitive to temperature (they are affected by wood temperature, air temperature, temperature of meter itself) as well as chemical composition of the of wood, the battery power at times can influence readings I find and pins often bend which affects readings too. 

I'm not arguing about the accuracy of the meters in the sub £50 price bracket, they are what they are, come out of the factory and reasonably accurate - I have a Stihl one.. it is the calibration requirement that I was commenting on more

[Paul in the woods]

Simple answer is you cannot calibrate a cheap, simple moisture meter. (Well, I'm not aware of anything other than performing your own oven dry test).

 

I think now the new law's in force Woodsure should be much clearer in it's statements.

 

They may mean ensure you select the correct timber type and temp if your meter allows but I wouldn't call that calibration.

 

Woodsure should also be much clearer about the basis you're measuring on as well, they've had plenty of time.

[Paul in the woods]

14 minutes ago, Paul in the woods said:

Simple answer is you cannot calibrate a cheap, simple moisture meter. (Well, I'm not aware of anything other than performing your own oven dry test).

Actually I'm speaking rubbish.

 

A bit of a search shows up simple electrical devices that can be used that provide a known electrical resistance.

 

Such as: https://www.test-meter.co.uk/protimeter-moisture-meter-calibration-checker

 

I found the Delmhorst MCS-1 that says it can be used on any meter with a wood scale, so might be useful?  Of course, I'd like to know the basis it is referring to but worth looking in to if you need something?

 

Quote

Moisture content standards are great for verifying that your Delmhorst moisture meter is in calibration. The MCS-1 can be used on any meter with a wood scale. With two electrical resistance values (12% and 22%) to test your meter against, you can be sure that your readings will stand up to the strictest standards of accuracy. The MCS-1 is also available with a letter of certification traceable to NIST.

Found on this page: https://www.delmhorst.com/parts/accessories

 

[Big J]

Edit: posted a joke in the wrong thread. 70hrs on a forwarder in a week isn't the best for concentration on basic things like use of tabs in a browser 😄

Edited May 22, 2021 by Big J