Can I do some extra freelance work for the company I work for?

[AHPP]

7 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

want me to keep going?

No.

[eggsarascal]

1 hour ago, Paddy1000111 said:

It wouldn't be the first time this has happened though. What do you call "under your instruction" Are you telling him which bit of the branch to cut, how much to cut off, where to tie into, are you in the tree with him selecting anchor points for rigging, are you telling him what cuts to make? 

 

All I am saying to the guy wanting to freelance is to check his insurance position and not just assume. You may read the small print and there may be a whole bit in there about labour only subcontractors and what happens if it's caused by their negligence? You might be in charge but an on site boss isn't even necessarily a qualified tree surgeon and he sure as hell isn't babying him up there. What if your freelance climber selects a shit rigging point and it fails and a branch goes through the house? Is that your fault because your his boss? I sure wouldn't employ a freelancer that I had to tell exactly what to do in every little thing, may as well do it myself. 

 

I also think that after the IR35 reform a "labour only contractor" will, under law, have to be on PAYE. This is going to be a major shake up

If it does happen I'm sure you won't mind posting a viable link to a case where it has happened that specifically mentions freelancers.

[Paddy1000111]

9 hours ago, eggsarascal said:

If it does happen I'm sure you won't mind posting a viable link to a case where it has happened that specifically mentions freelancers.

I'll have a look later when i have time.

 

Let me put it in a different way, your on a job with your groundie and a freelance climber. It's in a residential address, you're cutting up branches that your freelance climber has cut down and your groundie is loading the chipper. Your groundie asks for a hand carrying a log out to the van and you agree, your climber is at this point chogging sections down, there's nothing to hit and there's no-one around so you and the groundie carry the log to the van. Next thing you hear the saw shut off and a load of screaming. Whilst you gave the groundie a hand little Timmy ran out from the house and has just been hit and killed by a 100kg section that's just fallen 30ft. The police arrive followed by HSE, your already having a bad day and it's about to get worse. One of you is going to be charged with manslaughter.

 

According to you, you are the overall responsible person so apparently that's you even though it's your freelance climber that killed someone. The climber you had told the police "I'm a freelancer" and they will have apologized to him for even asking and said he doesn't have to be here so can go home, no questions asked. If this is how it works then I've spent a lot of money on insurance and time checking in covered when using the magic freelancer word. 

[Stubby]

Christ , this one has got legs ....

[Khriss]

Perceptions, Mr Stubby, there  are some who have not thought abt this, even chap aboves insurance document lumps labour only subbies in with the employed. Black on white. K

[eggsarascal]

Read the very last sentence under Labour Only Subcontractor. If it won't be valid it seems pointless having it.

 

Covering Contractors Under Employers’ Liability Insurance

WWW.TOWERGATEINSURANCE.CO.UK

---

As an employer you will need employers’ liability insurance. Read how to ensure your policy covers all workers that...

 

[Rich Rule]

Taken from the website Eggs posted a link to:

What is a labour only subcontractor? 

Labour only subcontractors work fully under the direction of the contractor. They are provided the materials to work with; given detailed instructions of what to do, and then supervised; and have to comply with health and safety arranged for them.

Under UK law, if you use a labour only subcontractor they count as your employee, and you as their employer take on the full risk of public, product and employers' liability. They must therefore be included in your employee insurance calculations even if they hold their own separate insurance policy, as this will not be valid under the terms of the work you have employed them for.

The difference between labour only and bona fide subcontractors 

It is likely they are a bona fide subcontractor if:

• They are on a fixed-price contract irrespective of what is needed to get the job done
• They are on a service rather than employment contract
• They decide their own hours, and how, when and where to do the agreed work
• They work for other parties as well as the main contractor
• They are obliged to correct any quality issues at their own time and cost
• They can prove they have insurance for public liability
• They cover expenses for materials, tools, etc. used for the work
• They can employ additional assistance if needed, at their own cost
• Their earnings are at risk if they price the job incorrectly

It is likely you employ a labour only subcontractor if:

• You pay the person hourly, weekly or monthly
• You can pay the person overtime or bonuses
• You supply the majority of their tools
• They do all the work required of them by themselves
• The main contractor directs them how, when, where and at what time they should do work
• They work a fixed number of hours
• The contractor can reassign them to another task

[Mick Dempsey]

2 hours ago, Stubby said:

Christ , this one has got legs ....

It’s actually a good thread, in the sense that it’s one we can learn from.

[Stubby]

1 minute ago, Mick Dempsey said:

It’s actually a good thread, in the sense that it’s one we can learn from.

Have we come to a difinitve conclusion yet ?

Edited December 22, 2020 by Stubby

[Rich Rule]

3 hours ago, Stubby said:

Have we come to a difinitve conclusion yet ?

See above quote.  Seems pretty definitive to me.

 

In response to Jamie Jones comments, they tried to crack down on employees working 5 days a week and being freelance.  That happened a few year back.

 

Due to the lack of unpaid employers NI rates and associated tax, plus Holiday pay, PPE and Pension.  The only person scamming there is the employer.