brainwashed Americans

[Khriss]

1 hour ago, Gary Prentice said:

But therein lies the problem Khriss. We all want advances in medicine to our improve our lot and longevity but on the other hand we want it 100% risk free. You can't have both.

When you 'need' an x-ray, you want it. But who really considers that MC died as a result of her experiments to initially introduce radiography?

 

Next time you have any sort of medical procedure, take a new prescription etc - look at the data you're given. Most possible/potential adverse side affects are  statistically broken down, but in almost everything there is a very low (1-2%) of a reaction resulting in death. 

 

As an aside, I wonder how many people who throw Thalidomide into the ring when arguing vaccinations are even aware that a newer version (Lenalidomide) is currently being used (often quite successfully) in todays cancer treatments?

 

Maybe we should think about the greater benefit to the greatest percentage of the population when we consider medical trials and errors. 

Indeed ( as ever) yr right Mr Prentice. Modern medicine is based on huge previous failures. But the thread is abt coercion by media /government  which very does use every tool at its disposal. R4 had piece on French colonisers using land fr A bomb tests in Pacific, at weekend and hushing that up was a piece of work - no mistake. K

[Mick Dempsey]

1 minute ago, Khriss said:

Indeed ( as ever) yr right Mr Prentice. Modern medicine is based on huge previous failures. But the thread is abt coercion by media /government  which very does use every tool at its disposal. R4 had piece on French colonisers using land fr A bomb tests in Pacific, at weekend and hushing that up was a piece of work - no mistake. K

Coercion or collusion?

[Khriss]

Hand in Hand dempsey,  k

[dadio]

On 02/03/2020 at 08:06, Gary Prentice said:

Next time you have any sort of medical procedure, take a new prescription etc - look at the data you're given. Most possible/potential adverse side affects are  statistically broken down, but in almost everything there is a very low (1-2%) of a reaction resulting in death. 

 If I took that attitude towards tree work, thinking that a 1-2% chance of dying from any particular cut is low and therefore it makes sense to make that cut, I would have been dead a long time ago. 

 

Another way to look at it, is if someone was pointing a gun at you and said, don;t worry there is only a 1-2% chance of the gn accidentally firing, would you ask them to point it elsewhere?

 

Voixx killed and estimated 60,000 people and 140,000 heart attacks in the USA, with some estimates that consider longe term effects being far highr:

 

Now, a study of 1.4 million people in California shows that those taking Vioxx had a one-third higher chance of having a heart attack than those taking other painkillers.

 

David Graham, of the US Food and Drug Administration, and colleagues concluded: "An estimated 88,000 to 140,000 excess cases of serious coronary heart disease probably occurred in the USA over the market life of rofecoxib [Vioxx]. The US national estimate of the case-fatality rate was 44 per cent, which suggests that many of the excess cases attributable to rofecoxib use were fatal." The results, published online by The Lancet, will be seized on by critics of the pharmaceutical industry as evidence of the failure of the drug regulatory system to protect the public. Dr Graham had earlier estimated that Vioxx may have caused up to 27,000 heart attacks but the new study caused him to upgrade the estimate by five times.

Doctors on both sides of the Atlantic have warned of a public health emergency over other painkillers in the same class, known as Cox-2 inhibitors, which could also pose a risk.

 

A report in The New England Journal of Medicine last October said studies since 1999 had repeatedly indicated a danger with Vioxx. Drug regulators made Merck include a warning in the drug package but never ordered a definitive trial.

Professor David Webb, of the clinical pharmacology unit at the University of Edinburgh, says in The Lancet: "It falls to the manufacturers, under the careful review of the regulatory authorities, to provide evidence that this class of drugs is safe."

[trigger_andy]

On 01/03/2020 at 00:43, TIMON said:

I’ll be finding out first hand this year... after an 8 year battle I finally got my US Visa approved ! (Past misdeeds meant I am ineligible for a normal visa. and I didn’t want to lie on the ESTA )
Me and my American mrs are going on a 6 week road trip...
Can’t wait. Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and back to Iowa.
My in-laws are some of the nicest people I’ve ever met.
Most Americans I have met have been sound.

Now that sounds like my kinda road trip!

[trigger_andy]

On 01/03/2020 at 10:25, Rough Hewn said:

Don't worry everyone
From next week I will be selling:
debrainwashing mineral water at $99.99 a bottle,
Brainsaver tinfoil hats at $99.99
Astrologically enhanced Buddhist crystal dream chakra upcycled tofu welded yoghurt weaving spirit logs at $99.99

You have a few bonkers idea's yourself.  

[trigger_andy]

On 01/03/2020 at 12:52, Mark J said:

When you buy land over there it's yours (well stolen, but that's a longer and different thread). Over here you get a deed.

 

All land is stolen, but yes, we have a crappy way of 'owning' land here in the UK.

[trigger_andy]

On 01/03/2020 at 21:51, Mike Hill said:

In Norway there is compulsory military training for young adults.

 

Then they are in the reserves untill they are 40.

 

They keep their automatic Rifles at home.

 

If guns are the problem,why not these guns?

 

Since their owners are literally trained killers? 

The compulsory past seems to be getting more and more relaxed these days. Women are given the option to join, but its not compulsory. If you dont wanna join you tick that box and they tend to not bother wasting their time with you. If you come up with a half arsed excuse they tend to not bother wasting their time with you. But I do believe it should be introduced here. Young folk over there are so much more respectful and come away after two years all the better for it. 

 

 

Norway does have a high gun ownership. Sports Stores like XXL have a wall full of them. Hunting is much more a part of their culture than here in the UK. 

 

I agree, its the american Mindset that needs fixing, not the gun ownership laws. Same as in Canada, very high gun ownership among citizens, fairly low gun crime. 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by trigger_andy

[Guest Gimlet]

On 01/03/2020 at 03:30, Gimlet said:

Go and take a look at China some time...

QED

Edited April 4, 2020 by Gimlet

[Gary Prentice]

On 04/04/2020 at 08:51, dadio said:

 If I took that attitude towards tree work, thinking that a 1-2% chance of dying from any particular cut is low and therefore it makes sense to make that cut, I would have been dead a long time ago. 

 

 

Risk management: ALARP at a glance

WWW.HSE.GOV.UK

I'm not 100% that I'm following your argument, but if you're saying that every action is risk free, well I'd beg to differ. If even using a chainsaw was without risk there would be no need for PPE.

 

The point I was making to Khriss was that any medical procedure and or medication comes with some risk. Usually the more harmful hazards that these medications (side affects) present are determined to be within the tolerable category of risk assessment. If a million people significantly benefit from a drug but 1-2% suffer an adverse reaction, even death, I guess that's considered tolerable.

 

Some of the affects of chemotherapy was once explained to me. Side affects include the increased probability of susceptibility to other cancers, i.e. you're more likely to get cancer after chemo. In a nutshell, chemo is extremely harmful to the body, you're pumped full of cyto-toxic/harmful to cell chemicals. The Doctor considers the outcome of giving/not giving chemo. Will the patient die if they don't receive chemo?   If they will, then the benefits outweigh the risks and disbenefits. 

 

I asked my oncologist today whether a chemo cycle booked for next week will reduce my defences below what they are now (blood counts are improving from the last cycle 2-3 weeks ago). 

The answer is yes they will. meaning that I'll be more susceptible to Covid than I am now, until with the aid of other medication my blood counts improve again. 

 

I just accept that there is risk involved in everything and practically nothing is 100% risk free. You just hope with pharmaceuticals that testing and approvals are as they should be and risks are ALARP.