Self Employment Pay

[SimpleSimon]

Small firm I used to subby for, the boss was on the tools with us mostly, and if all the jobs he'd planned were done then it was home time and you were paid day rate. After all, he'd priced the jobs based on having to pay it anyway. Sometimes some logs to do or bits and bobs at the yard. The odd early finish made up for the odd late one and easy days made up for big ball ache days. 

Bigger firms I do bits for will find jobs to fill the day, which is fair enough, they have more to worry about and profit to make or lose. 

When I do agricultural stuff I always charge hourly, it means I take a hit if we get done quickly or it's a smaller job, but it also means I'm not doing 12+ hour days for peanuts. 

 

For me, day rate is the better option for arb becuase I know I'm getting that regardless. Otherwise I could end up back from a job at lunchtime and sent home on 4 hours pay. I'd rather do crap jobs in the yard than lose half a day's wages. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by SimpleSimon

[Treespasser]

  

32 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

Well there is times in life when  you really need to keep things to yourself, and this is one of them, the way you have worded it and as i understand it, you want a full days pay for half a days work ! you say that you get a job done and then the boss puts another job on as there is time left in the day to do it, and the aggrivates the shit out of you, your words , i dont see any thing wrong with that at all, a days paid work is a days paid work, or have things changed ! what you say in your post that tells me as an employer you dont want to do the extra job, but yet you still want paying ?, thinking forward and how many other people are reading this and are thinking the same ! i dont think you have done yourself any favours here, Good luck but shoot self in foot comes to mind,,,,

I can see where you are coming from, but I'm not expecting full days pay for half a day work when the job only has half a day money on it.... I get that. It's when the employer get his job done beautifully (with a full days money on it) with a few hours to spare and then squeezes another job to make even more profit, and you get nothing to show for your efforts. Not even £5 for a pint as a good gesture.

 

4 minutes ago, SimpleSimon said:

Small firm I used to subby for, the boss was on the tools with us mostly, and if all the jobs he'd planned were done then it was home time and you were paid day rate. After all, he'd priced the jobs based on having to pay it anyway. Sometimes some logs to do or bits and bobs at the yard. The odd early finish made up for the odd late one and easy days made up for big ball ache days. 

Bigger firms I do bits for will find jobs to fill the day, which is fair enough, they have more to worry about and profit to make or lose. 

When I do agricultural stuff I always charge hourly, it means I take a hit if we get done quickly or it's a smaller job, but it also means I'm not doing 12+ hour days for peanuts. 

 

For me, day rate is the better option for arb becuase I know I'm getting that regardless. Otherwise I could end up back from a job at lunchtime and sent home on 4 hours pay. I'd rather do crap jobs in the yard than lose half a day's wages. 

 

Cheers Simon, just the reply i was looking for. Though for me the late days far outweigh the early days ?

 

[allseasons]

Same here company I worked for use to cram the day then say at 330 just go and do this little job for no extra money after he had made day rate plus some. My lads have there day sheets when they are done they go home or sharpen saws I think it encourages people to feel appreciated and then when a job over runs and offer them money they say no thanks I finished early the other day we are even. Works both ways but that is only my opinion and you get and keep good staff.

[spuddog0507]

5 minutes ago, Treespasser said:

 

  

I can see where you are coming from, but I'm not expecting full days pay for half a day work when the job only has half a day money on it.... I get that. It's when the employer get his job done beautifully (with a full days money on it) with a few hours to spare and then squeezes another job to make even more profit, and you get nothing to show for your efforts. Not even £5 for a pint as a good gesture.

 

 

Cheers Simon, just the reply i was looking for. Though for me the late days far outweigh the early days ?

 

do you get paid for a full day if you do a full day ! and him making more profit as you put it is fuck all to do with you, thats how small firms keep going, are you aware how much it costs to run a small outfit, be thankfull he is finding you work and if your not happy get out there and find your own work and get set up yourself and then it might hit home that its not all about turning up at 8am and going home at 4pm, Just had a young lad that has moaned and winged about several things in his first month with us never happy about any thing you ask him to do, he his now looking for another job, and another thing is you work in a very tight knit job where a lot of people know and talk to each other and bad news travels faster than good news in this job be careful what you say!,

[Guest]

I don't think you need to bleed very ounce from an employee. If I use subbies it's one's I know are good and will get the job done without any hassle, which makes my life easier. Then if the jobs done quicker we're all winners. I've enough years experience that if I've underestimated the job its my cock-up and I bear the brunt. I don't expect someone to work 9 hours but only get paid for 8. That wears pretty thin pretty quickly, and then, surprise, surprise, they're not available when you need them.

[Stephen Blair]

If boss lets you away early for full pay, say thank you.

If boss works you later than agreed hours, you should get paid.

If boss buys you breakfast, gives you a lift home, lets you borrow machinery and is a sound guy/lady and 1 day the wheels fall off the van and you work 10 minutes later than usually then stick in an hours overtime, that’s not cool.

  Keeping the scales evenly balanced on goodwill I’d almost impossible, some folk take the piss be it employer or employee and resentment kicks in and rather than bring addressed properly it usually ends up in dummies coming out the pram!

  Usually mine ?

[Mark Bolam]

That’s the thing Wayne.

The lads I use would never have a problem pulling a late one if required because we all know arb isn’t an exact science.

They wouldn’t ask for extra because we get plenty of early finishes, although I might get the beers in!

My business model is a lot different from some though, me and the lads I use have worked together for years and often work for each other.

 

I do think it takes the piss to reward hard graft, skill, innovative thinking and new techniques and kit (supplied by the lads) with hours of extras when the team have already made the company the money that it set out to make that day.

 

Probably why I’ll never be a millionaire, I’m just not a big enough c***!

 

Spudd, forestry is a different game, your day is never done!

[Treespasser]

49 minutes ago, Calamity Wayne said:

I don't think you need to bleed very ounce from an employee. If I use subbies it's one's I know are good and will get the job done without any hassle, which makes my life easier. Then if the jobs done quicker we're all winners. I've enough years experience that if I've underestimated the job its my cock-up and I bear the brunt. I don't expect someone to work 9 hours but only get paid for 8. That wears pretty thin pretty quickly, and then, surprise, surprise, they're not available when you need them.

My thoughts exactly! When I get the odd private job, we often get it done with good time and I always pay them full days regardless. Then every one is a winner and you're all happy.

[Rich Rule]

2 hours ago, spuddog0507 said:

Well there is times in life when  you really need to keep things to yourself, and this is one of them, the way you have worded it and as i understand it, you want a full days pay for half a days work ! you say that you get a job done and then the boss puts another job on as there is time left in the day to do it, and the aggrivates the shit out of you, your words , i dont see any thing wrong with that at all, a days paid work is a days paid work, or have things changed ! what you say in your post that tells me as an employer you dont want to do the extra job, but yet you still want paying ?, thinking forward and how many other people are reading this and are thinking the same ! i dont think you have done yourself any favours here, Good luck but shoot self in foot comes to mind,,,,

I hear you but it isn’t necessarily always the case.

 

Consider the scenario, the freelance climber is brought in because of his skill set.  The company owner cannot complete the task or doesn’t have the staff to complete the task.

 

You travel to site and due to superior tree knowledge and skill, the job gets done in half the time.  The company owner gets his full pay and presumably all the costs are covered as he priced it for a day.  

Why should the Freelancer take any less than his day rate?

 

He may have travelled a distance to site to do the work, may not be able to arrange something to drop onto in the afternoon.

 

I freelanced climber for 15 years, I have worked for both types.  Guys who would pat you on the back, pay in full and take the guys back to the yard for a maintenance day.  Those guys tend to be the ones who have priced the job correctly.

 

The again I have worked for plenty who would send you 5 miles across London to prune 3 apple trees at 1530...  with the excuse that you work till 17.  I can see the point but when 5 miles in London can take 40 mins plus at that time of day, plus travel time back to the yard doesn’t leave a lot to do the apple trees.  If you stayed to do the job you wouldn’t get any overtime either.

 

The latter sort are generally the guys who price way, way too cheap and are always playing catch up...  the same sort who would agree on an end of year bonus and then not pay it because there knackered, run down, on its last legs chipper died in November.

I know which sort I preferred working for, now I generally price high and pay by the hour, then the option is there and if another job drops in to get it done.  Everyone makes money and goes home smiling.

 

 

 

 

[bigtreedon]

I hear you but it isn’t necessarily always the case.
 
Consider the scenario, the freelance climber is brought in because of his skill set.  The company owner cannot complete the task or doesn’t have the staff to complete the task.
 
You travel to site and due to superior tree knowledge and skill, the job gets done in half the time.  The company owner gets his full pay and presumably all the costs are covered as he priced it for a day.  

Why should the Freelancer take any less than his day rate?
 
He may have travelled a distance to site to do the work, may not be able to arrange something to drop onto in the afternoon.
 
I freelanced climber for 15 years, I have worked for both types.  Guys who would pat you on the back, pay in full and take the guys back to the yard for a maintenance day.  Those guys tend to be the ones who have priced the job correctly.
 
The again I have worked for plenty who would send you 5 miles across London to prune 3 apple trees at 1530...  with the excuse that you work till 17.  I can see the point but when 5 miles in London can take 40 mins plus at that time of day, plus travel time back to the yard doesn’t leave a lot to do the apple trees.  If you stayed to do the job you wouldn’t get any overtime either.
 
The latter sort are generally the guys who price way, way too cheap and are always playing catch up...  the same sort who would agree on an end of year bonus and then not pay it because there knackered, run down, on its last legs chipper died in November.

I know which sort I preferred working for, now I generally price high and pay by the hour, then the option is there and if another job drops in to get it done.  Everyone makes money and goes home smiling.
 
 
 
 

Unfortunately skill sets are not recognized wen it comes to payment time with some people! They are keen enough to blow smoke to get you there but once the tree or trees are completed especially if in a timely fashion those types have some strange logic that there chipper made the job fast or the weather was with us today or that was really lucky u could fell that big top [emoji849] it never stopped surprising me the absolute shit that people would come with instead of just saying thanks for your knowledge here is ur money get urself off home