Should a referendum on Scottish independence only include people living in Scotland?

[Baldbloke]

trigger andy, they do not like being told the truth, we scots cant look after ourselves, we are too small, too poor, too stupid, etc, the whole population has been lied too for 300 years, and they are still brainwashing the population and lying to it, even when you quote actuall independantly verrified facts , they still deny it, and as for a dislike for the SNP, yes, once independance is in place, everyone can vote for who they like, thats the beauty of an independant  nation, your not dictated to by another bunch of lying greedy idiots hell bent on making there fortune off your back, I still find it very strange the amount of uk residents that shout out in favour of other small countries asking to become indipendant, but scream at us saying we cant, were stupid, etc, in the big picture an awfull lot of the worlds already saying that they will support and trade with an independant scotland, the time is right for the break,       saor alba

I agree with the bulk of your last two posts but really worry about the SNP having even more power. I’m concerned about a change of currency, a hard border within Britain, raised taxes, their plans to rejoin the EU, and most of all the secrecy that the SNP is renowned for. But, if they were to provide a workable working plan/manifesto and allow full scrutiny of it prior to any further Indy referendum I could be converted. But they won’t, and suspect any funding will need to be extracted from those far removed from their vote base. They’ll work on the emotions of the feckless and keep very quiet about how they’ll be managing their brave new Scotland until it’s seen as unaffordable.

 

There is a real danger of a brain drain and the very best of people leaving Scotland if taxes are disproportionately higher to the U.K. whole.

 

As Andy suggests, it may be very difficult to get rid of the SNP once Scotland was an independent country. Of course they are a big party in Scotland, but a relatively small party within the U.K. representing around a majority within a twelfth of the population.

 

 

 

[struie]

On 18/12/2019 at 09:54, trigger_andy said:

Like I wrote earlier, I simply do not believe those figures. Call its a conspiracy theory and laugh but I firmly believe that these numbers are a pure fabrication. The Oil Companies working in cahoots with the Government 'losing' surveys in the Firth of Clyde, the constant and down playing of the reserves still there, Westminster uncovered documents relating to this and how the North Sea Oil propped up the UK's Credit Rating and how the Government was petrified Scotland would go it alone and take their Oil with them. If you want links then Id have to spend ages find them all again.

 

Yes, the North Sea is one of the most challenging places to Drill in the World, or at least was in the 70's. A Whole new way of Building Platforms was needed and the tech involved was akin to putting man into space. (So Ive read and see on Documentaries on Oil) Seems a bit over the top but shows the challenges they faced. 

 

But the actual Oil Extraction in the North Sea is relatively straight forward. Brent Crude is a light sweet crude, one of two global benchmarks for oil prices. Its a mix of UK and Norwegian Oil. 

 

The Norwegian sector of the North Sea is not any more viable than the UK/Scottish Sector. Its the same shelf, the same formations and same Oil. The difference between the UK Sector and the Norwegian Sector is purely Political. We're told here in the UK its running out so not worth bothering about anymore, Norway is still building Platforms that are designed to last 40 years plus. Keeping in Mind the Platforms built in the 70's, 80's and 90's had a shelf life for only 20 years and have been pushed past that every decade. 

 

We now have the technology to extract marginal reserves and reserves in shallow pay zones, as little as 10 meters deep via horizontal drilling. ESP (Electronic Suction Pumps) produce low pressure fields, Water injection to get a fields natural pressure back up again after extensive production and for fracking. Fracking propants, Multi-Lateral Completions, Sand Screens, Intelligent Completions (where I come in) What was considered not worth recovering 10-20 years ago is more than viable and Fields that where seens as running down are back up to 1980's levels. 

 

I have Supervised the installation two of three of the only MIC Completions currently in the World on the Grane Platform. Each of these Wells is producing over 20,000 barrels a day. Over Christmas we'll be doing the third there. Since I started in Halliburton in 1998 all Ive done is work directly in the Oil Industry 'at the coal face'. Seems like half my adult life has been spent on the Drill Floor in the UK, Internationally and for the last 12 years in Norway. 

 

So feel free to post more links you've found on-line but they simply do not tally up with the reality I've sen for the last 20 years.

 

I do agree, the SNP are playing a dangerous game. But no when it comes to Oil. Whatever your views on Scotland 'losing the confidence' of UK Investors can quite easily be scaled up to the UK losing the confidence of global investors due to Brexit, yet we're happy to take that risk. 

quite agree andy,after working more than twenty yrs at the coal face,we plugged dozens of wells which were to be more viable later,two i remember being off Haverford west,the secrecy surounding exploration drilling is a well known fact,the two wells we did off wales was in the early eighties, and,we were told by the company man to keep it shut,not to say a word of where the rig was or what the expected total of barrels it would probably produce.This has been a common practice of oil companys since day 1,so stating stastics and figures is pretty much like shootin fish in a barrel,the powers that be tell us what they decide.just to close ive worked,the north sea,norway,denmark,persian gulf,cambodia,vietnam,angola,congo basin, and malabo,and its pretty much the same crack all over.

[Johnsond]

Facts 

Not  SNP propaganda which I hate to admit is very very well done in a cynical lying type manner. 

[Big J]

1 minute ago, Johnsond said:

Facts 

Not  SNP propaganda which I hate to admit is very very well done in a cynical lying type manner. 

Another example of how first past the post is failing the UK. It's has allowed the extremes of the SNP in Scotland and the Tories in England Wales take control of their respective countries politically, despite getting the minority of the votes.

 

Bring on PR.

[trigger_andy]

Another example of how first past the post is failing the UK. It's has allowed the extremes of the SNP in Scotland and the Tories in England Wales take control of their respective countries politically, despite getting the minority of the votes.
 
Bring on PR.

No one seems bothered about FOTP when their Party wins. No one in the US seems bothered by the Electoral Collage when their Party wins. But when they lose they sure like to moan about it.

What difference to the election would have PR made to the party you chose to vote for?

[trigger_andy]

Found an article where the Lib Dems would have 60 seats or something. And the Tories would have a minority government.

So we’d just have bitching, and fighting, and years and years of stagnation caused by the opposition blocking everything. Like Labour has done to destroy Brexit purely for their own political gains. Seems like a waste of time to me.

This is what the general election results would have looked like if …

WWW.GOOGLE.CO.UK

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Boris Johnson would have been denied a majority in parliament if the UK had used the voting system adopted for European parliament polls at the general election, new research shows. Analysis of

[Johnsond]

2 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

 

No one seems bothered about FOTP when their Party wins. No one in the US seems bothered by the Electoral Collage when their Party wins. But when they lose they sure like to moan about it.

What difference to the election would have PR made to the party you chose to vote for?

 

Not Moaning about PR Andy what I do not agree with is the fact that Sturgeon and the SNP are standing in front of every available camera and claiming an absolute mandate for another referendum. Which in my eyes they plainly don’t have. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Johnsond

[trigger_andy]

14 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Not Moaning about PR Andy what I do not agree with is the fact that Sturgeon and the SNP are standing in front of every available camera and claiming an absolute mandate for another referendum. Which in my eyes they plainly don’t have. 

No, was more directed at Big J as he has a Hard-on for PR.  

 

I agree with what you're saying regarding Sturgeon and the SNP. They like to think they speak for Scotland but they dont.

 

I think BoJo should just give them their Indi#2 and see where the cards fall. Where they to lose again they would have no mandate at all for Indi#3 and hopefully they'd shut it for a while.  

[Johnsond]

17 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

No, was more directed at Big J as he has a Hard-on for PR.  

 

I agree with what you're saying regarding Sturgeon and the SNP. They like to think they speak for Scotland but they dont.

 

I think BoJo should just give them their Indi#2 and see where the cards fall. Where they to lose again they would have no mandate at all for Indi#3 and hopefully they'd shut it for a while.  

Possibly but to tell truth I’d just like a break from politics and referendum etc etc for a while. 

[Richard 1234]

2 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

No, was more directed at Big J as he has a Hard-on for PR.  

 

I agree with what you're saying regarding Sturgeon and the SNP. They like to think they speak for Scotland but they dont.

 

I think BoJo should just give them their Indi#2 and see where the cards fall. Where they to lose again they would have no mandate at all for Indi#3 and hopefully they'd shut it for a while.  

I think the SNP would do like Westminster if they got a second NO and bluster there way to another one in 5 years after they do well at the next election