Should a referendum on Scottish independence only include people living in Scotland?

[Baldbloke]

I'll tell you the point. You are incorrectly using the word 'majority'. It doesn't mean 'the most of'. It's not an argument, it's a matter of the correct use of words. In the example you put, the correct answer is indeed no-one, not because I would argue it but because it's factually correct. Your rhetoric would be clearer to follow if you don't mix up majority of votes with majority of seats. And FPTP is an analogy that only works for the constituency votes. In parliament government comes from most past the post i.e most of the first past the posts. Positively primitive, in my opinion, as it gives two linked opportunities to alienate large parts of society.
 
Anyway, some people care. When the new scottish parliament had the opportunity to design a system form scratch it introduced a system that is more inclusive. Because enough people cared.

And yet that very same Scottish Parliament is claiming a mandate for Indy Ref 2 because of the seats they won through FPTP. They claim that the majority of Scotland wants independence, but the truth is they didn’t actually get anything like 50% of the vote to do so. Their success was purely through FPTP, and didn’t reflect a majority wish for their most pressing aim.

They also ‘designed’ a vote for 16 year olds. Presumably because they envisaged the likelihood of getting their vote. I’m sure if they disallowed the vote to retired voters they really could get a real majority.

[daltontrees]

12 hours ago, Baldbloke said:

And yet that very same Scottish Parliament is claiming a mandate for Indy Ref 2 because of the seats they won through FPTP. They claim that the majority of Scotland wants independence, but the truth is they didn’t actually get anything like 50% of the vote to do so. Their success was purely through FPTP, and didn’t reflect a majority wish for their most pressing aim.

They also ‘designed’ a vote for 16 year olds. Presumably because they envisaged the likelihood of getting their vote. I’m sure if they disallowed the vote to retired voters they really could get a real majority.

 

Agreed on the first point. See what a shit  and misleading system it is?

 

I have no view on the second points.

[Baldbloke]

While the Scottish Government says it’s desperate to either remain in or rejoin the EU, the Scottish export figures don’t actually back up that argument. England is Scotland’s biggest market at 60%, while the EU took 18%. But the biggest Scottish foreign export market is the USA. The figures are from the Scottish Government.

So to suggest that leaving the EU will do untold damage to Scotland is strange when it is Remaining in the E.U. which after our U.K. departure could be Scotland’s most expensive decision.

Remaining in the E.U. after England’s departure would not only involve tariffs trading with England, but also our biggest foreign export market. This when leaving shows it would be beneficial in retaining tariff free trade within the U.K. cheaper trade with the USA, and being included in FTAs around the rest of the world. For Scotland to remain an E.U. member it would involve hefty EU contributions and stifling trade barriers with its biggest markets. All just to show Sturgeons dissatisfaction at Westminster.

 

It has been suggested that the Scottish Government has already been in discussions with the EU over a simplified reentry as a member. Also that the EU appears quite keen because it would be giving the U.K. the finger for leaving.

[Mark Bolam]

[TIMON]

She’s aged quite well,all things considered.

[David Cropper]

4 hours ago, Mark Bolam said:

For God's sake,  don't start Mick Dempsey off! If he sees that, he'll be battering one off! Ugh!

[slasherscot]

The  conservative party fought their election in Scotland on Leave the EU and no Indref 2 .......i think losing 7 seats and their share  % of the votes, would send a clear message to the dimmest of west minister politicans that a mandate has been reached and its just a matter of when Indref2 will happen. If u dont like it you can always vote no on the ballot paper.

[trigger_andy]

7 minutes ago, slasherscot said:

The  conservative party fought their election in Scotland on Leave the EU and no Indref 2 .......i think losing 7 seats and their share  % of the votes, would send a clear message to the dimmest of west minister politicans that a mandate has been reached and its just a matter of when Indref2 will happen. If u dont like it you can always vote no on the ballot paper.

 

I somewhat agree. But if its a NO again do you think the knuckle dragging goons that are the SNP will finally shut it? 

[slasherscot]

there was a story about a King and a spider

Edited December 23, 2019 by slasherscot

[trigger_andy]

Just now, slasherscot said:

there was a story about a King and a spider

Did that story involve repeatedly going against the democratic will of the people? I forget.