Crane work

[Rough Hewn]

What's the score with hiring in cranes for arb work?

Is there a ticket/training?

[emoji106]

[monkeybusiness]

Read this.

 

You will need to arrange for a contract lift with a crane company (ie they arrange the lift plan and insure the lift). 

The technical guide in the link is a work in progress and is already very good - it would be worth sharing it with whichever crane company you look to use as some of the suggested techniques (riding the hook etc) are generally considered a no-no in crane work. 

 

[Dan Maynard]

Try to tempt Steve out of retirement.....

[Mark Bolam]

32 minutes ago, monkeybusiness said:

Read this.

 

You will need to arrange for a contract lift with a crane company (ie they arrange the lift plan and insure the lift). 

The technical guide in the link is a work in progress and is already very good - it would be worth sharing it with whichever crane company you look to use as some of the suggested techniques (riding the hook etc) are generally considered a no-no in crane work. 

 

Riding the hook is the best thing about crane work.

[LGP Eddie]

Never really understood how riding the hook has ever been allowed as in Construction you’d need a low loader for the book they’d bring to throw at you!

In this instance the guide gives a good explanation of why in certain circumstances it’s clearly the safest option if done correctly.

 

It’s a little like Tree Shears, everyone always asks what you can lift, and you say no idea? That normally provokes a heart attack in the box tickers, but the reality is you don’t know how heavy something is or if you can hold it until you’ve cut it.

The alternative is make someone climb it, use a saw in a tree and rig it down.

The risks from sitting in a guarded cab of a machine with a properly specced cut capacity to machine base weight ratio are negligible by comparison.

 

 

Eddie.

 

[benedmonds]

7 hours ago, monkeybusiness said:

 

You will need to arrange for a contract lift with a crane company (ie they arrange the lift plan and insure the lift).

I don't really get the contract lift vs hire with trained operator.  I  have discussed on here previously..

We use and guy who has been using cranes for decades, his cranes are old but he knows his stuff, is good to work with and the lifts are planned between the climber and the crane operator... He does not differentiate. 

 

If I hire a crane and trained operator,  they are surely going to be responsible for the crane and lift.

What is different on the ground when you get a contract lift?  It just sounds like a way to add a couple of hundred quid on the hire rate.   

With a contract lift does the "appointed person" tell the climber where to sling and cut?

If I did a hire only and told the trained crane operator to lift something too big, surely the trained crane operator is still going to be responsible if it goes pear shaped. 

 

If you compare it to hiring a wagon to take away waste.  I could potentially overload it, but it is going to be the driver who gets in grief if it is overloaded.

 

 

[monkeybusiness]

53 minutes ago, benedmonds said:

I don't really get the contract lift vs hire with trained operator.  I  have discussed on here previously..

We use and guy who has been using cranes for decades, his cranes are old but he knows his stuff, is good to work with and the lifts are planned between the climber and the crane operator... He does not differentiate. 

 

If I hire a crane and trained operator,  they are surely going to be responsible for the crane and lift.

What is different on the ground when you get a contract lift?  It just sounds like a way to add a couple of hundred quid on the hire rate.   

With a contract lift does the "appointed person" tell the climber where to sling and cut?

If I did a hire only and told the trained crane operator to lift something too big, surely the trained crane operator is still going to be responsible if it goes pear shaped. 

 

If you compare it to hiring a wagon to take away waste.  I could potentially overload it, but it is going to be the driver who gets in grief if it is overloaded.

 

 

I’d have a chat with your insurance company and see what they think. 

 

Is is there a written lift plan? If not, how did you spec the crane for the job? 

 

If the worst were to happen I’d suspect your driver would be in a lot of  trouble - the problem is that his insurance probably wouldn’t pay out as you are paying crane hire not contract lift which would subsequently leave you in deep doo-doo too.

[LGP Eddie]

2 hours ago, benedmonds said:

I don't really get the contract lift vs hire with trained operator.  I  have discussed on here previously..

We use and guy who has been using cranes for decades, his cranes are old but he knows his stuff, is good to work with and the lifts are planned between the climber and the crane operator... He does not differentiate. 

 

If I hire a crane and trained operator,  they are surely going to be responsible for the crane and lift.

What is different on the ground when you get a contract lift?  It just sounds like a way to add a couple of hundred quid on the hire rate.   

With a contract lift does the "appointed person" tell the climber where to sling and cut?

If I did a hire only and told the trained crane operator to lift something too big, surely the trained crane operator is still going to be responsible if it goes pear shaped. 

 

If you compare it to hiring a wagon to take away waste.  I could potentially overload it, but it is going to be the driver who gets in grief if it is overloaded.

 

 

Contract Lift you are paying for the Crane Company to take all the risk.

Cranes just ‘on hire’ will almost certainly come with the Construction Plant Association (CPA) terms and conditions.

Do yourself a favour and find out your exact responsibilities especially if the Crane is coming with Operator under CPA, as you’ll find you’re responsible for an awful lot more than you think.

Just like hiring in Plant, the CPA terms are basically gospel, they have been tested many times over the years, the industry is well aware of them and it’s up to Hirers to ensure they make suitable provisions.

 

Likewise any reputable CPA company and their Operatives will have their own responsibilities to ensure checks are made and safe systems are adhered to at all times.

 

Here’s a brief outline from the HSE to the CPA in the subject of Hire v Contract Lift.

 

Don’t take a chance for a few hundred quid, these guys have their own legal teams that specialise in this stuff, I know because I’m fortunate to be in the CPA and they offer members great advice.

 

 

 

 

Eddie.

[roseyweb]

Most crane jobs I’ve done the job would be a nightmare or impossible without riding the hook, all the climbing you’d never get it done 

[Nick Connell]

I used to pay £700+vat a day for a 50t crane with insurance. They only want to do contract lift now. When I got them to price an easy day's job the price went up to £1900+vat.