Has the world changed?

[Old Mill Tree Care]

Yep that’s a good post Marc and I agree with you however:
How the friggin hell can we charge clients enough so that we can pay staff well when we have to compete against cowboys, Gypos and scum bags.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Old Mill Tree Care

[Matthew Storrs]

57 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:

I'm heading down the machine route next year.
Either that or it's like J says...
A cabin deep in the woods.

It’s the only way! I work entirely on my own now- don’t even bother with subbies now- just me and my machines- if the job requires more hands I politely turn it down. My life is almost stress free as a result!

[HuntingHicap]

25 minutes ago, Old Mill Tree Care said:

Yep that’s a good post Marc and I agree with you however:
How the friggin hell can we charge clients enough so that we can pay staff well when we have to compete against convoys, Gypos and scum bags.

And old established small arb companies who are happy to work for peanuts. I am not a million miles away from you Alasdair, I have a full time job (not in arb) however I do some arb work part time.

Before I get branded any of the above I am NPTC qualified (for what thats worth) and have public liability and employee cover. I have never advertised but get a reasonable amount of work via word of mouth from friends and family. 

I recently priced a large conifer hedge, (approx 4 metres wide, 8 metres high and about 15-20 metres long) to side and top, client wanted about a metre off each side and two off the top. I advised him he would be better off getting rid of the whole thing, and replanting, however priced him £400 calculating it as a long day for myself and a labourer, mate's rates as he is a friend. He told me this morning that he has got someone else who is going to do it and an adjacent Lime reduction for £460 inc vat.

 

I don't regret this at all, it was one of those jobs I was dreading, however my point is, for the company to be VAT registered it must be reasonably professional (might even be you), how can they afford to pay staff a decent wage out of that?

[eggsarascal]

51 minutes ago, Marc said:

Pay well,

What does that mean, I bought it up on another Arb based discussion, when I in a roundabout way suggested a level of pay the replies were I thought surprising, most seemed aghast at the thought of paying their staff more than they earn or so well for little responsibility.

This concerned me, you owners are coming at this wrong, remember your business and reputation is built upon your staff, they will never own the asset that is your business but will be part of that asset, your pay may seemingly be less your efforts may seemingly be more in time spent stressing, but at the end of the day the business is ultimately yours so make them a part of it.

 

I looked at arbjobs recently to get an idea of pay, and of those disclosing it offer 25-30k for experienced arbs with tickets are living in the past, and holding us back, imagine if the pay scale was £40-50k for a climbing arborist on the books would this attract more into our industry and a greater drive from them to be at the top of their game.

 

or am I living in a dream world?

I don't think you are living in a dream world, (I'll probably get lambasted for this), if you can't pay a tradesman somewhere near to 2 a day you are doing someting wrong. I get sick of. hearing, "there are tons of tree surgeons being turned out of college", if that's true why are people struggling to find grafters?

[trigger_andy]

3 hours ago, Rough Hewn said:

I put an advert up on here a while back offering "top rates" for climbers and groundies. Not a single enquiry.

To be fair even those paying bottom rates will still state they are paying top rates. Unless you actually include the 'top rate' in the listing I can see why people would not be so keen to inquire. 

[devon TWiG]

many arbs who are any good ( or think they are !! ) seem to prefer to work for themselves and start up their own business ...........also like  most trades it is costly and time consuming to get all the tickets that seem essential these days !!

[Marc]

1 hour ago, Old Mill Tree Care said:

Yep that’s a good post Marc and I agree with you however:
How the friggin hell can we charge clients enough so that we can pay staff well when we have to compete against convoys, Gypos and scum bags.

I don’t have all the answers, all I can say is we have to ignore how everyone else operates and do what’s right for us.

I am in a privileged position my job is purely to price works, look at equipment investment and ensure I have the skilled staff to carry out the works I price, what I have found seems so logical to me yet to others it doesn’t.

 

I have found if I pay more for kit and more for staff I can be cheaper than my competition and make more money, part of that is now due to we can compete on works out of reach of the less committed “do as you like” companies out there. The downside is I need volume of work to keep going and it becomes a huge issue of plate spinning, but that’s pretty much my job now for my MD, truth be told I reckon I am earning as much as him now and I can tell you that I pay some climbers more than me. But they will come and go, and I hopefully will remain as will the company I work for with a pension, and in time perhaps a stake in things.

perspective needs to be in place.

 

I also respect all those companies that compete against us we will always lose a few jobs to those that have fewer overheads and as long as they do good work I’m all for competitive environment, as all I want to see driving around is good tree care so thumbs up to all those that have a passion for it and continue to educate themselves.

 

[eggsarascal]

12 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

To be fair even those paying bottom rates will still state they are paying top rates. Unless you actually include the 'top rate' in the listing I can see why people would not be so keen to inquire. 

Enquirer !, ffs Andy. Roughy did state his rates.

Edited September 21, 2019 by eggsarascal

[trigger_andy]

6 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

Enquiire!, ffs Andy. Roughy did state his rates.

Im not following? What does Enquiire mean? 

[eggsarascal]

Just now, trigger_andy said:

Im not following? What does Enquiire mean? 

You beat me to the edit, I'll see ya next time...