Background to the HSE decision on two rope working

[High Scale]

So you can use both ends of your rope, you don't have to use a secondary system that reaches the ground, that's odd. You should be using two separate systems when moving around the tree but a lanyard is not suitable as it's not normally that long, so if you had a long lanyard attached to the PPE points on your harness, separately from your main system that should be cool provided that the friction device  on your lanyard is suitable for PPE, fall from height protection, remember it doesn't have to get you to the ground.

 

You can also only use only one point of attachment,( lanyard) whilst retrieving or advancing your main system/systems something you cannot do in Industrial rope access.

Edited November 24, 2020 by High Scale
Thought of something else.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

The other end of your ropes acts as a 'backup system' hence compliant with TG1 (soon to  be released - see website bookshop for pre orders.) 

Only your primary system needs to reach the ground not the backup.

Yes to latter point too, a HSE concession.

Paul

 

 

[High Scale]

Thanks for your reply Paul, I shall look into it some more.

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, High Scale said:

So you can use both ends of your rope, you don't have to use a secondary system that reaches the ground, that's odd. You should be using two separate systems when moving around the tree but a lanyard is not suitable as it's not normally that long, so if you had a long lanyard attached to the PPE points on your harness, separately from your main system that should be cool provided that the friction device  on your lanyard is suitable for PPE, fall from height protection, remember it doesn't have to get you to the ground.

 

You can also only use only one point of attachment,( lanyard) whilst retrieving or advancing your main system/systems something you cannot do in Industrial rope access.

I quite liked the idea of a Hobbs belay (wot rock climbers do) when the climber is moving, as long as it is fit under LOLER the lowering rope will be available then, or did I miss something? I only watched 55 minutes of the webinar so far and it;s all academic for me as last commercial climb was 8 years ago but I don't see the team I was last working with being willing or able to comply  and one of them will be reading this.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Sorry, can't comment on the belay proposal detail although I'm aware it is an option to use a belay technique.

In terms of climbers not being willing or able to comply, I'm sorry but they can and hopefully will in time as more equipment, more techniques develop and it becomes the norm (remember not to do so is breaching the W@H regs, now we have definitive guidance, and any HSE have clearly stated such.)

My colleague uses the introduction of seat-belts as an analogy...initially much resistance, and draping it over your shoulder :/, but now quite normal/ natural.

Thanks for discussing. 

Paul

 

[skyhuck]

Comparing it to seat-belts reflects perfectly the lack of understanding from the shiny suited, clipboard holders, who self-appointed themselves as representing OUR industry.

[MattyF]

Can any one confirm that the guy originally from HSE who prompted this walked out after two months and his name please ?

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

4 minutes ago, MattyF said:

Can any one confirm that the guy originally from HSE who prompted this walked out after two months and his name please ?

Stuart Parry has been promoted within HSE and moved to a different department I believe.

He took direction from HSE's W@H specialists and was very robust in his/HSE stance on the matter.

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by AA Teccie (Paul)
Addition of text.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

7 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

Comparing it to seat-belts reflects perfectly the lack of understanding from the shiny suited, clipboard holders, who self-appointed themselves as representing OUR industry.

Simply a comparison of change being challenging.

Who else would have represented the industry and we did consult on several occasions.

HSE wanted '2-ropes' at all times- we achieved a concession for use of a backup system.

[MattyF]

Simply a comparison of change being challenging.

Who else would have represented the industry and we did consult on several occasions.

HSE wanted '2-ropes' at all times- we achieved a concession for use of a backup system.

But it’s not two ropes it’s three if we follow your other guidelines of having a rescue line installed as well ... if I was continue working SRT with retrievable anchors which I feel is the safest way to work on a average large tree of say around 22 metres that would mean around 150 metres of rope is needed.... that’s a 150 m of rope to manage... Put that along side conditions, rigging , woodchippers and groundsmen with saws I think I’ve pretty much trebbled my chances of some one cutting my rope or it getting damaged by rigging , being ripped out the tree by getting caught on machines.. all of these concern me greater as they are risks I can not control as a climber and VERY REAL ones I have personally witnessed.