Background to the HSE decision on two rope working

[Khriss]

15 minutes ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

Interestingly it's a different regulator on the rail network I believe, i.e. ORR as opposed to HSE., but sure they will "sing from the same hymn sheet"  

Stop making 'it complicated' k

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

2 minutes ago, BenR said:

Hey Paul,

 

Yes of course IRATA is a more obvious comparison but the point I am trying to make is that until we have a proper scheme that clearly identifies proper tree work professionals (and the public have a better understanding of this too) then it's pretty hard for the guys doing to job to go out and work on two ropes whilst competing with big garry who gets up on the ladders and hacks the shite out of the trees with a 181 back handle one handed..

 

Hope you're well amigo!

Absolutely agree.

 

Moi bein, muchos gracias mi amigo

 

[benedmonds]

5 minutes ago, BenR said:

What would be great is if we could get outselves organised to the stage where as tree workers we need to be accredited to do the work and those that are not accredited simply cannot practise the job.

 

You wouldn't get a gas engineer that's not corgi registered would you?

This will never happen. We could get closer if insurance providers INSISTED on it, even then I am not convinced as I bet loads of people do tree work without the correct cover.  Tree work is just not valued enough by joe public, bad tree work is unlikely to kill the client. Domestic tree work companies are often competing with tarmacers and gardeners and 9 times out of 10 price is all that matters.  The more hoops we have to jump through the less competitive the accredited companies will become and there will probably be more untrained cowboys/farmer sons having a go... This could end up in increased accidents.. Beware unintended consequences.

 

PS corgi changed to gas safe ten years ago.. 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Just now, Khriss said:

Stop making 'it complicated' k

A distraction technique Khriss  

[BenR]

1 minute ago, scotspine1 said:

 

Cheers for the responses Ben.

 

That's why I asked about SRT demo, because if you guys set lines with throwbags at 40ft/50ft/60ft into big trees then proceeded to ascend using the wrench on the single line, that's surely going trigger the HSE guy's when they see you climbing without a backup in a situation that looks very similar to IRATA/Industrial Rope Access techniques. Just wondered if it spooked them? 

 

 

 

I'm afraid I was not party to the discussion Tim.

 

What I would say though is whether the lines are set to 60ft on DDRT or SRT there is no difference.. If it's one rope, it's one rope. And I think that was made clear to them.

 

As I see it, the main issue for them is that we have more accidents than any other rope climbing sector in the UK and as such climbing on two ropes regardless of the technique used seems safer to them.. 

 

Where we go from here will be interesting

 

 

[Khriss]

Frankly I like it both ways ( stop it Felix!) As a choice of which ever system will suit-  I will Always SRT a ivy covered tree cos doubled rope is hopeless there an I hate ladders ! K

[Mick Dempsey]

5 minutes ago, BenR said:

Hey Paul,

 

Yes of course IRATA is a more obvious comparison but the point I am trying to make is that until we have a proper scheme that clearly identifies proper tree work professionals (and the public have a better understanding of this too) then it's pretty hard for the guys doing to job to go out and work on two ropes whilst competing with big garry who gets up on the ladders and hacks the shite out of the trees with a 181 back handle one handed..

 

Hope you're well amigo!

false dichotomy - Wiktionary

EN.WIKTIONARY.ORG

 

[dumper]

6 minutes ago, BenR said:

Hey Paul,

 

Yes of course IRATA is a more obvious comparison but the point I am trying to make is that until we have a proper scheme that clearly identifies proper tree work professionals (and the public have a better understanding of this too) then it's pretty hard for the guys doing to job to go out and work on two ropes whilst competing with big garry who gets up on the ladders and hacks the shite out of the trees with a 181 back handle one handed..

 

Hope you're well amigo!

I would suggest that the guys on two ropes are going to lose work to the guys with one rope who are losing  work to Big Garry. The man who taught me never used a line just a rope round his waist 

Edited September 5, 2019 by dumper

[BenR]

Well thats my two cents.. with all due respect to everyone there is nothing more to say.

 

It is what it is.. some of us may not like it. But that's how it's supposedly got to be.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the corgi thing. Looks like I need to update my analogies.

[Carl1991]

I've skipped many pages apologies if this has been covered, but have the arb association actually done anything to actually back us up? Or have you just folded? It will not work, I cant see how for the life of me it will, extra gear to buy for staff, more for groundie to keep a check on, more hazardous in my opinion in the tree, at some point you'll be down to a single rope while you set a secondary anchor, great on big spread trees to get right out on the skinny stuff but come on. What's needed is to get to the root of the problem which has caused this decision, not brushing under the carpet with a new decision.