Big J on radio 4..

[AHPP]

47 minutes ago, difflock said:

 

Gents, I can only reiteriate my family owned farm upbringing of 60-50 year ago. It was very plain, any money was re-invested in the farm business. My father and his brother worked brutally hard. There was no mains electric. There was no mains water.There were no holidays. There were few luxuries, compared to my townie classmates.

These things may have changed, BUT that is how family owned farms were inherited or accrued. You can be as envious and jealous of the current farmers/landowners as you like but you sound like Uncle Joe Stalin and his reaction to, and treatment of the Kulaks. Link attatched.

Kulak - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

You steadfastly miss the point. Just because someone has worked hard to get into a position where they are able to do wrong, doing wrong isn't any less wrong.

[AHPP]

1 hour ago, Paul in the woods said:

So you assume any new builds will be nicely spread out around the country? Most will be around cities, towns, villages where there's work, transport and other facilities - as illustrated by Big J.

 

I can't see this not resulting in very large price rises in the areas where most people would want to build.

 

As for your tax, it's still a tax.

The thought process of your new suburbanite:
"I want to live on the edge of a town to be close to work, transport and other facilities."
<looks on rightmove>
"Bugger. Everything's a fortune around here. I'll move out a bit. It's cheaper."
<time passes>
"That house I was looking at on the town edge still hasn't sold. Perhaps the seller will accept a lower offer."

 

Compared with the situation now:

"I want to live on the edge of a town to be close to work, transport and other facilities."
<looks on rightmove>
"Bugger. Everything's a fortune around here. Let's look at alternatives."

,a very small amount of time passes>

"Bugger. There's no alternative. I'll get a mortgage I can't afford and contribute to crashing the economy in a few years."

Edited August 29, 2019 by AHPP

[difflock]

5 hours ago, AHPP said:

You steadfastly miss the point. Just because someone has worked hard to get into a position where they are able to do wrong, doing wrong isn't any less wrong.

By what defination are they "doing wrong", if they are acting within lawful constraints?

Are you asking landowners/farmers to act more morally than the rest of the population?

And brutally, the law abiding farming community are significently less of a drain on Society(compared to benefits scroungers) in respect of the associated costs of providing Social housing, Social Services, Policing, NHS  health care and litter lifting.

From my local observations over 50 years leastwise.

And I know farmers/landowners are not perfect, but  .  .  .

Edited August 29, 2019 by difflock

[MattyF]

To be fair j if you had not spent a fortune on brand new gear you could of brought your self a nice bit of land.
We have a nice bit of land but apart from one decent tractor on finance every thing else is old kit.

[AHPP]

10 minutes ago, difflock said:

By what defination are they "doing wrong", if they are acting within lawful constraints?

Are you asking landowners/farmers to act more morally than the rest of the population?

And brutally, the law abiding farming community are significently less of a drain on Society(compared to benefits scroungers) in respect of the associated costs of providing Social housing, Social Services, Policing, NHS  health care and litter lifting.

From my local observations over 50 years leastwise.

And I know farmers/landowners are not perfect, but  .  .  .

You're being obtuse. The law allows for, encourages and goes as far as mandating many things that are abhorrent. You know exactly what I mean by doing wrong. Taking money stolen from other people is wrong.

As for who is the greater drain, have you got any figures to hand to back up what you say? I don't either but I strongly suspect the dolescum are a drop in the ocean compared to the landscum.

[LeeGray]

What money was stolen? Did I miss something?

[eggsarascal]

12 minutes ago, LeeGray said:

What money was stolen? Did I miss something?

I guess it depends where you stand on the subject of taxation, some folk will say it's theft others will say it isn't.

[Conor Wright]

83 million euros.
That's what the largest single farming subsidy granted in ireland was for one year.
This went to a large mnc, greencore. Their after tax profits were 640 million in the same year.
Never mind bitching about small landowners getting a few thousand here and there. Far more insidious things are happening while everyone blames their neighbour.
A rough estimate leads me to believe that the average payment in my local area is in the region of 15k. Roughly 135000 family farms in the country gives approx 2bn in payments based on this average yet there is over 4bn granted. All the top recipients are large privately owned companies. Many receiving millions annually but returning profits far greater than the grant/subsidy amounts.

These companies have unfair market control and can influence price therefore squeezing family farms to the brink, farm takes a loan on the land to try and make ends meet or improve production, price falls again, bank takes land, large mnc buys land, entitling them to even greater subsidies. Repeat.

[MattyF]

Another factor is a lot of in farming asubsidies are for leaving land fallow I know some who pocket over 20k and they do absolute nothing with there land it’s all slowly turning back to nature the price for intensive arable land on the environment is huge so whilst half the country lays in a baron glysophate wasteland it seems absurd but if it’s the only way to stop such management is it worth it? , get some land and get a good agent and you can make money.. my dad sold off 40acres the guy he sold it too had a good land agent and got 60k in grants for planting and maintaining for 5 years now he’s selling it for triple what he paid.

[eggsarascal]

This is straight from the horses mouth: farmer local to me told me that the actual agricultural side of his farm looses money year in year out, he makes his money through contracting to other much bigger farmers, subsidies, and other government (us) funded schemes.

 

Side note: he's a council owned tenent farmer who's tenancy is due to run out in 2 years time and the council won't tell him if they will renew it, how's he meant to plan for the future?

Edited August 29, 2019 by eggsarascal