Climate change anyone?

[sime42]

I removed that last part as I thought it sounded a bit pretentious. 
 
https://www.kingcrab.co.uk/
 
I like these guys. Delivered to your door within 24 hours. I also buy Beef and Hogget on-line through facebook of all places. Scottish Crofters and small scale Farmers.
 
https://www.facebook.com/CreagMhorHebrideans
 
No, 30 minute round trip, but I dont go into town specifically for Fish, I'll buy at the Mongers or Butchers if Im already in town getting a shop or buying other supplies.
 
If I can buy local I do, if I can buy UK sourced I do. Its about practicing what you preach. There is little point in bleating on about it if you're not putting these things into practice yourself. And yes, road miles comes into play, but I feel much better that Im supporting local or UK Fishers and Farmers than importing from around the Globe. 

We need to be careful here; it's looking like we are actually in agreement on this particular subject! How the hell did that happen?

My aspirations are to buy local when I can. Living as I do though in a big landlocked city this is not easy to achieve. I've not properly explored the possibility of online shopping in answer to this, I will endeavour to.

I still think the change required to improve this situation has to be driven by a top down approach, as well as bottom up, consumer lead.

[trigger_andy]

8 minutes ago, sime42 said:

We need to be careful here; it's looking like we are actually in agreement on this particular subject! How the hell did that happen?

My aspirations are to buy local when I can. Living as I do though in a big landlocked city this is not easy to achieve. I've not properly explored the possibility of online shopping in answer to this, I will endeavour to.

I still think the change required to improve this situation has to be driven by a top down approach, as well as bottom up, consumer lead.


 

I guess we do agree on something after all.  

 

I dont think change will ever come from the top on this particular subject. Globalisation is here to stay Im afraid and people will always want something cheaper and cheaper. So its just down to individuals really. Wont make much of an impact in the grand scheme of things but its nice to support local or at least UK businesses and the quality is very good. Take the Hogget for example, not everyones a fan but its delicious, its fairly cheap. Think I paid £6/kg last time?  And you're directly supporting a Small Croftholder. Win/win! He does a run every so often down my way so I buy then, I dont think he delivers UK wide, but there is bound to be Farmers like him the UK over. Definitely worth looking into.

[AHPP]

5 hours ago, sime42 said:

I really think that in this country and the rest of the "developed world" food is essentially too cheap..This is behind a whole host of problems;- environmental damage, obesity, poor animal welfare to name but a few obvious ones. I accept that this is in part down to us as consumers, but I think supermarkets and the food industry in general have a bigger responsibility. They are after all profit driven. The cheaper they can sell and produce food the bigger their profits. Here again regulation at a state or government level could be used to help address this issue.
 

 

State food control. No thanks. 

North Korean famine - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

And since this thread is primarily about the environment: 

Aral Sea - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

 

 

Stop calling for the state to do things. At least on the planet I live on.

 

[trigger_andy]

 
State food control. No thanks. 

North Korean famine - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG  
And since this thread is primarily about the environment: 

Aral Sea - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG  
 
 
Stop calling for the state to do things. At least on the planet I live on.
 

Is the reason foods increasingly cheap not because it’s already state controlled? Take away all the subsidies and you’ll soon see the real cost.

[sime42]

 
State food control. No thanks. 

North Korean famine - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG  
And since this thread is primarily about the environment: 

Aral Sea - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG  
 
 
Stop calling for the state to do things. At least on the planet I live on.
 

Easy tiger! You've jumped forward several steps all by yourself there. I didn't say state food control, or anything like it. I merely suggested some regulation to try to address some of the major problems that we're all facing right now.
As you've probably realised by now I am not at all a fan of our State, and especially not our current government. That said I would not even begin to equate them with Russia or North Korea. What a strange idea.

[AHPP]

5 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

 

 

Is the reason foods increasingly cheap not because it’s already state controlled? Take away all the subsidies and you’ll soon see the real cost.

 

 

You'd see the real cost at the shop, which is preferable to the current system of seeing artificially low prices but paying the real price plus some. Subsidies make things more expensive. The thing still needs paying for but then so does the administration of collecting tax and paying the subsidies. You pay less at the shop but more overall.

 

Say milk costs 80p. Pay the shop 80p and the milk's yours.

Now say some government cvnt decides to force milk to be 60p at the shop. He gives the farmer 20p so he sells it to the shop for 20p less. You pay 60p at the shop but you've had to pay the 20p the farmer got in tax somewhere else and then more tax to pay said government cvnt to go to work, say 5p. 80p milk now costs 85p.

[AHPP]

44 minutes ago, sime42 said:

Easy tiger! You've jumped forward several steps all by yourself there. I didn't say state food control, or anything like it. I merely suggested some regulation to try to address some of the major problems that we're all facing right now.
As you've probably realised by now I am not at all a fan of our State, and especially not our current government. That said I would not even begin to equate them with Russia or North Korea. What a strange idea.

Once these people start interfering, they can't/don't stop.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by AHPP

[AHPP]

47 minutes ago, sime42 said:

As you've probably realised by now I am not at all a fan of our State, and especially not our current government.

I didn't realise. You called for them to do things.

 

Say your ideal government gets in. You give them loads of powers. A few years down the line, a worse government gets in and inherits the powers. How pleased are you now.

[trigger_andy]

Just now, AHPP said:

You'd see the real cost at the shop, which is preferable to the current system of seeing artificially low prices but paying the real price plus some. Subsidies make things more expensive. The thing still needs paying for but then so does the administration of collecting tax and paying the subsidies. You pay less at the shop but more overall.

 

Say milk costs 80p. Pay the shop 80p and the milk's yours.

Now say some government cvnt decides to force milk to be 60p at the shop. He gives the farmer 20p so he sells it to the shop for 20p less. You pay 60p at the shop but you've had to pay the 20p the farmer got in tax somewhere else and then more tax to pay said government cvnt to go to work, say 5p. 80p milk now costs 85p.

Someone with a better understanding of this than I could better answer but we simply do not see the real cost in the shops. We see an artificially low cost in the shops and the hidden cost is paid for via the taxpayer. Its like communism but with extra steps. 

 

So regarding your premise of 80p milk I think the reality is more that the real cost of milk is 80p. But the Government is making those who actually pay tax cover 40p of that through subsidies. The milk in the Shop is now 60p. Those that dont pay tax get their milk at 60p but the taxpayer has paid £1.00 for that 80p milk. Yet everyone who is paying 60p for that milk is up in arms as its so expensive. 

 

That in my mind is state controlled prices. The state is keeping the prices of staples artificially low by making the taxpayer in effect pay twice. Remove all subsidies, level the playing field and have the end user pay the actual cost of food and a lot of people would be in for a very nasty shock, and most likely starve to death. People really do not know how good they have it, all thanks to state controlled prices.

 

The State controls the prices by determining how much subsidies they pay the Farmer. 

[AHPP]

22 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Someone with a better understanding of this than I could better answer but we simply do not see the real cost in the shops. We see an artificially low cost in the shops and the hidden cost is paid for via the taxpayer. Its like communism but with extra steps. 

 

So regarding your premise of 80p milk I think the reality is more that the real cost of milk is 80p. But the Government is making those who actually pay tax cover 40p of that through subsidies. The milk in the Shop is now 60p. Those that dont pay tax get their milk at 60p but the taxpayer has paid £1.00 for that 80p milk. Yet everyone who is paying 60p for that milk is up in arms as its so expensive. 

 

That in my mind is state controlled prices. The state is keeping the prices of staples artificially low by making the taxpayer in effect pay twice. Remove all subsidies, level the playing field and have the end user pay the actual cost of food and a lot of people would be in for a very nasty shock, and most likely starve to death. People really do not know how good they have it, all thanks to state controlled prices.

 

The State controls the prices by determining how much subsidies they pay the Farmer. 

Yeah. I said that. You missed the important bit where the government cvnt gets paid for setting it up. That's the bit that makes subsidies increase prices, not just get to the same price another way.

Edited December 16, 2020 by AHPP