Top-handled chainsaws: appropriate use and management

[Steve Bullman]

Basically, if you turn up as a bonafide subcontractor to do work for another company, providing your own vehicle, own staff, and carry out the job under your own supervision, then their EL doesn't cover you. If you turn up as a labourer for another company, be it a climber or groundsman, you are covered under their EL

[Mick Dempsey]

3 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

That’s bona fide subcontractor territory, which is different.

Jeebus! 

 

How so? These guys call me up to quote a job, I say 1k, I presume they say 1.5k,  the job gets the ok, I do it, sometimes, though not always, they send a guy and van to help me.

 

So whets the liability now?

 

(ps, drunk now so don’t expect logic)

[Mark Bolam]

Your insurance if the job’s done under your direction to your timescale with your kit.

 

Their guy in the van has thrown a spanner in the works, though, and I’m not drinking tonight!

 

I’ve had the same, main contractors guys running chip round for us in dumpers etc.

 

I’d just leave the insurance companies to scrap it out, probably.

That’s what I pay them for!

 

I need a drink....

[skyhuck]

One test for bona fide subcontractor is can you can sub the job out to another firm? if not chances are are your a "worker" or similar from a H&S point of view.

 

If you are told a time to meet and working with others or under instruction, you are defiantly not a bona fide subby.

[Jcarbor]

   Why was he subbing for lecky work without the correct insurance?

 

 IMO he is very lucky you did not sue the arse off him.

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly, were you labour only or a bona fidi contractor ( proving your own gear ie kit vehicles and doing the job for him etc) if you are labour only then he should be liable for you, not having ELI IS ILLEGAL!

The client should also have some input into this event if you were doing utility works and he was uninsured, were you qualified in utility?

 

[Ratman]

Jeebus! 
 
How so? These guys call me up to quote a job, I say 1k, I presume they say 1.5k,  the job gets the ok, I do it, sometimes, though not always, they send a guy and van to help me.
 
So whets the liability now?
 
(ps, drunk now so don’t expect logic)

Not gospel but.....

I’d go with who ever supplies the final bill for the job is the key person to carry liabilities. i.e If you put a rent in for £1k as a subby to do a job for (as before “joe blogs”) and joe bloggs send a man in to help, hes paying you and the additional bod. Its all his bag whatever happens!
If you put a rent in for £1k and you do the job all on your own, book stops with you as far as 1st claims go.
But ultimately the liabilities are with joe blogs still as he will in the end be cashing up with you, so in turn you would have to chase recompense off him then. (IMO)

[Mick Dempsey]

So there are grey areas after all!

Edited March 8, 2019 by Mick Dempsey

[Jcarbor]

I hear you Mick, but the amount a subby climber make is far less than the firm who are doing the job, so IMO the firm who's name is on the invoice should have the correct insurance in place.

To f@$king right!

[Ratman]

So there are grey areas after all!

Not really, theres always a definitive end / answer.

[Jcarbor]

Something of a grey area potentially, as I understand it, and hence under the scheme we make it (EL insurance) mandatory regardless. Tbh I think it would be a legal case to determine the situation but I think it would be a civil rather than statute case, i.e. EL Compulsory Insurance Act.

Paul if this lad was providing labour only then it as plain as day, the idiot employing him should have the appropriate ELI in place.

Its shocking that irresponsible employers like this get away with this behaviour. (Jim Jc trees.)