The beauty of the Tax System

[westphalian]

agree on a simpler tax system with zero loopholes. that will never happen as our law makers have a vested interest in loop holes.

a peer of mine about five years ago said, "do u wanna pay less tax"

I do not need to tell you the answer.

however, it involved a legal loophole, paying zero tax but paying 10% of your income to some dodgy solicitor for some convoluted scheme. I never went in to the details as it was clearly immoral. he hasn't paid tax since but I am not jealous

[westphalian]

what the hell you paying tax to Norway for in Angus? it's not 736 AD is it?

[trigger_andy]

1 minute ago, westphalian said:

what the hell you paying tax to Norway for in Angus? it's not 736 AD is it?

I work in Norway. I have no option but to pay my tax there. There is an agreement with the Government that as long as Im paying more tax to Norway than I am to the UK I dont need to pay any additional tax in the UK. Unfirtunately Im now at the point that Scotland want more tax from me than they do in Norway, without any of the benefits I would/do enjoy in Norway. 

[AHPP]

24 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Im familiar with the political landscape and can easily distinguish between authoritarianism and libertarianism, your posting seems to indicate you struggle with the concepts though. The only alternative to tax you're posted is paying for what you use. That sounds much more like a Capitalist view point than say a libertarian one, it also indicates that if you have no means of paying for a service then you're screwed. As much as I hate paying the amount of Tax I do I understand that there is no other way to fund all the services we take for granted. 

 

So please, educate me on how you think these services could be funded without taxation? As far as I can see that would be indentured service and then we're back to being Commies. Socialism clearly does not work either and that relies heavily on tax. 

  

You stated ' I pretty diligently avoid things paid for by taxation' you've not expalined what that means? Im my opinion its picking and choosing, but please correct nem if Im wrong.

 

You are inventing things, as you've not got an even slightly viable answer to any of my questions, you just spout ideology with not factual backing or empirical evidence of it working anywhere on earth. 

 

 No, Ive never been in the Army. But Im not a head in the clouds kind of person who dreams up the fantasies you seem to believe in. Tax is a fact of life and always will be. Your utopia is my idea of hell and Ive love to see you post an example of where its every worked. 

I know when I'm beaten. Well done.

[Gary Prentice]

5 hours ago, Rob D said:

I often find myself when paying the book keeper and accountant and trying to squeeze in all the mundane paperwork [completely pointless and unnecessary] side of things - just what is it all for? For tax of course! Why do you do it? Because you would go to prison if you didn't!

 

I mean when you think on it it's a beautiful system - ref VAT not only do we have to pay back the gov the surplus tax - we have to collect this for them and also calculate it for them ie. it costs us time and money to do what is in effect their job. And then send them the money

I suppose the only (small) consolation is that at least you're doing the calculating. Can you imagine how it would be if they were doing the figures and telling you what to pay?

 

"Mr D, your gross sales  were £X, send it to us"

[Rob D]

1 hour ago, Gary Prentice said:

I suppose the only (small) consolation is that at least you're doing the calculating. Can you imagine how it would be if they were doing the figures and telling you what to pay?

 

"Mr D, your gross sales  were £X, send it to us"

 

Yep I thought that - but then I thought instead of paying £8-£10k in accountancy and book keeping fees - I'll keep £2k to a year of that to then investigate their dodgy calculations. They wouldn't try it again - exactly what they do to us.

[Rob D]

There's a lot of extreme arguements going on here that are best seen a bit more shade of grey... I think we all know that we need to give a portion of our income as tax. We all need schools and healthcare.

 

But are there any facts and figures to show how large the gov has become year on year in terms of manpower etc? I can't find any by Google... Would it not be best to have simple plain rules that everyone understood and required less paperwork?

 

Someone said a tax on producers at source - that seems a much simpler way of calculating and gathering a VAT type tax? Then pretty much no one else has to deal with it but the producers? They already add VAT to imports - why not just leave it at that and collect that?

 

Is it just because the end price the consumer pays + vat nets more money than the import price/producer price + vat? Because that would not be worth the paperwork....... ah......... but it is if gov does not have to pay for that.

 

Got to be a simpler way of doing things. Got to be.

[Stubby]

3 hours ago, AHPP said:

I know when I'm beaten. Well done.

Hats off to you for that ! ?

[trigger_andy]

33 minutes ago, Rob D said:

There's a lot of extreme arguements going on here that are best seen a bit more shade of grey... I think we all know that we need to give a portion of our income as tax. We all need schools and healthcare.

 

But are there any facts and figures to show how large the gov has become year on year in terms of manpower etc? I can't find any by Google... Would it not be best to have simple plain rules that everyone understood and required less paperwork?

 

Someone said a tax on producers at source - that seems a much simpler way of calculating and gathering a VAT type tax? Then pretty much no one else has to deal with it but the producers? They already add VAT to imports - why not just leave it at that and collect that?

 

Is it just because the end price the consumer pays + vat nets more money than the import price/producer price + vat? Because that would not be worth the paperwork....... ah......... but it is if gov does not have to pay for that.

 

Got to be a simpler way of doing things. Got to be.

Completely agree, whilst we'll never be free of tax, unless we want to live in mut huts in Africa and die at 30. But I resent paying what I do and the behemoth of a system its become. 

[trigger_andy]

4 minutes ago, Stubby said:

Hats off to you for that ! ?

I think he was being sarcastic, but you never know?