Entrenched Ivy on Mature ASH removal

[tree-fancier123]

Of course education is beneficial - sometimes though it seems people get so immersed in the literature they begin to see people doing practical work as idiots who need educating 'follow me I know the way'

[tree-fancier123]

15 hours ago, openspaceman said:

Given that I think ecoplugs are  an expensive  form of litter I'd hesitate to  recommend their use but...

do you think its chemically impossible for ecoplugs to poison the host tree when drilled into 'veteran' ivy? 

The phenomenon of glyphosate 'flashback' is more usual between two trees of the same species that have root connections, so stump killing a syc on the boundary could kill the one next door etc, but could the herbicide be translocated to the ivy roots and transported accross the ivy root cell walls directly into the tree roots? I wouldnt want to risk the chance on a champion tree like that. 

[tree-fancier123]

40 minutes ago, EdwardC said:

rather than based on ignorance, (e.g ivy kills trees),

I have read a good few tree books myself, maybe not the all incunabula you've had access to, but the core texts. I wouldn't say it is ignorance to think ivy kills trees - the increased drag leading to windthrow and the smothering of buds leading to leggy growth only right at the tips. Ivy isn't doing a tree any favours, it's only hindering its growth and survival. The habitat ivy provides is another matter entirely.

I can't believe an educated person can't see that on  deciduous trees that have evolved to be bare in winter during the strongest winds the increased drag caused by an ivy infestation will increase the chance of windthrow

Edited January 11, 2019 by tree-fancier123

[Mark Bolam]

Edward, you must have cut up plenty of blown trees that would still be standing if they weren't swamped in ivy.

I know I have.

 

Ivy has it's place, definitely, fantastic habitat etc.

 

Just not on trees that you want to keep in tip-top health and retain. 

[tree-fancier123]

If someone invented a systemic fungicide and a cost effective way of getting into the xylem, and it was found to be effectively disributed around the tree killing the pathogen and halting the spread of decay,you could argue it wouldnt be ethical to use this new fungicide to save a nice tree, because pathogenic fungi evolved simultaneously with trees. One could argue saving a tree from a pathogen, if it were made possible would be wrong, as its only natural for trees to suffer pests and diseases, any intervention would upset other oranisms that thrive on wood decay. The best thing for ecosystems is if man doesnt even get near enough to photograph them?

Edited January 11, 2019 by tree-fancier123

[Mark Bolam]

The rabbits aren't tall enough to eat that ash tree.

[Mick Dempsey]

1 hour ago, EdwardC said:

 

 

It's about thinking what your actions will do. Don't let the rabbits eat the cauliflowers. Think.

I thought about it

Edited January 11, 2019 by Mick Dempsey

[Mick Dempsey]

The metaphor you used about foxes and rabbits has zero relevance.

 

 

 

[Mick Dempsey]

I’ve given it a some thought.

 

If we must use cauliflower fields, foxes and rabbits to represent the players in this drama, then it would be more accurate to make the tree the field of cauliflowers, the ivy is rabbits and the foxes are your beloved pigeons and lichen.

 

The field of cauliflowers can live with the rabbits, but is diminished and vulnerable, the removal of the rabbits will unconditionally benefit the cauliflowers, the only losers will be the foxes who toddle off to the nearby field of less valuable carrots.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Mick Dempsey

[openspaceman]

10 hours ago, tree-fancier123 said:

do you think its chemically impossible for ecoplugs to poison the host tree when drilled into 'veteran' ivy? 

No I don't think it's impossible, I do think it unlikely if the ecoplug is  used at the correct rate for the ivy stem and  well above the buttresses.

 

Without going into ecopolitics of whether the ivy should be removed I have seen innumerable efforts to remove heavy  ivy growth  from mature stems, mostly oaks and there is often significant damage done to the bark of the host tree. The ecoplug will  kill the ivy with no physical damage to the tree.

10 hours ago, tree-fancier123 said:

The phenomenon of glyphosate 'flashback' is more usual between two trees of the same species that have root connections, so stump killing a syc on the boundary could kill the one next door etc,

Yes I've heard this and always assumed it to be  trans-located through root grafts, I'd like to see a bit more of experiments on this.

 

BTW I made the mistake of allowing a handsome fan of ivy to grow up the wall of my 1862 built cottage for 20 years before I realised the damage it was doing to the mortar. I control the ivy now but the dead  tentacles are still a visible reminder of my mistake on the brickwork.

 

Similarly I abandoned a small greenhouse which became covered in ivy, I quite like ivy to look at with its berries etc., and migrated into my hawthorn hedge which dates back to before the house was built. Again after 20 years and my retirement I decided to reclaim the garden but the hedge was so heavily entwined with ivy I found it had killed two hawthorns by smothering them completely. I now have large bare areas in the hedge which I am trying to layer hawthorn from adjacent plants into plus I have planted a couple of hollies I found growing elsewhere..