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Entrenched Ivy on Mature ASH removal

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44 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

I can't believe an educated person can't see that on  deciduous trees that have evolved to be bare in winter during the strongest winds the increased drag caused by an ivy infestation will increase the chance of windthrow

Trees haven't evolved in isolation.

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Edward, you must have cut up plenty of blown trees that would still be standing if they weren't swamped in ivy.

I know I have.

 

Ivy has it's place, definitely, fantastic habitat etc.

 

Just not on trees that you want to keep in tip-top health and retain. 

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I think you'll find that most trees that are covered in ivy aren't in tip top condition. Those trees that are in tip top condition aren't covered in ivy. Why? Because ivy is utilising the tree to get to the light. Trees that have  sparse leaf density generally have low vitality, but that is unlikely to be as a result of the ivy. The ivy is clearly visible,  the underlying problem not visible, therefore blame the ivy for the decline of the tree and remove it. Will that actually keep the tree in tip top condition bearing in mind you haven't actuall addressed the underlying problem. It's also noticible that certain tree species are more prone to ivy, e.g ash. Beech don't seem as susceptible. Why? Beech cast dense shade, ash naturally have airy crowns through which more light passes.

 

Trees are a woodland species, as is ivy. They have evolved together along with all the other woodland flora and fauna, all I'm suggesting is that people manage the trees with the wider ecosystem in mind.

 

This appears pretty much a standalone tree. Was it always that way, or does it have other woodland flora and fauna associated with it that require consideration when managing. Well ivy for one, but what else. Whatever management is undertaken will have negative and positive impacts. Understanding those is key to the management of the tree, but you need to think about everything that could be affected by the works.

 

I'm reminded of a story a friend told me of the farmers who grew brassicas and cauliflower. Being farmers, and being traditional, they decided it would be a good idea to get rid of the foxes in the area because foxes, like ivy, are bad, so they did. The result...

Edited by EdwardC

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If someone invented a systemic fungicide and a cost effective way of getting into the xylem, and it was found to be effectively disributed around the tree killing the pathogen and halting the spread of decay,you could argue it wouldnt be ethical to use this new fungicide to save a nice tree, because pathogenic fungi evolved simultaneously with trees. One could argue saving a tree from a pathogen, if it were made possible would be wrong, as its only natural for trees to suffer pests and diseases, any intervention would upset other oranisms that thrive on wood decay. The best thing for ecosystems is if man doesnt even get near enough to photograph them?

Edited by tree-fancier123

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Depends on whether the benefits of killing the pathogen outweighs the harm. Fungi are integral to all life on earth. We have dozens if not hundreds of species on us, along with all the bactrria, viruses , mites etc.

 

Mankind has impacted ecosystems ever since mankind walked the earth. And pretty much since then has thought they could control nature. 

 

It's all about balance. I have asthma, I have a Qvar inhaler. When I use it it affects the fungal associations in my throat, maybe that should be trachea. Anyway, I can end up with a sore throat because of an outbreak of candidiasis. But if I'm careful I don't and the benefit outweighs the harm.

 

It's about thinking what your actions will do. Don't let the rabbits eat the cauliflowers. Think.

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1 hour ago, EdwardC said:

 

 

It's about thinking what your actions will do. Don't let the rabbits eat the cauliflowers. Think.

I thought about it :)

DC35DADE-A8BC-47EB-B06D-CF06DA4F7A75.jpeg

Edited by Mick Dempsey

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I’ve given it a some thought.

 

If we must use cauliflower fields, foxes and rabbits to represent the players in this drama, then it would be more accurate to make the tree the field of cauliflowers, the ivy is rabbits and the foxes are your beloved pigeons and lichen.

 

The field of cauliflowers can live with the rabbits, but is diminished and vulnerable, the removal of the rabbits will unconditionally benefit the cauliflowers, the only losers will be the foxes who toddle off to the nearby field of less valuable carrots.

Edited by Mick Dempsey

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