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Thesnarlingbadger

H&S head scratcher

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48 minutes ago, Pete Mctree said:

If you had an accident dismantling a tree over 380mm, what qualifications would your insurance company & the HSE expect you to have? 

Sorry to answer a question with a question, but that is how I would look at it. Most companies around this end have staff qualified for trees over 380mm

Surely if you were dismantling a tree then it doesn't matter. I get what your saying and I'm not trying to sneak around something, if I have to do a CS32 then so be it (it will only be a befit at the end of the day) but I would rather try and do this job and then get one.

 

 I'm just a little frustrated as it was something I didn't think would be an issue and now has become a thing that I am having to try and sort out in a short period of time. The joys of running a business.

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1 hour ago, spudulike said:

References from past jobs, do you have a portfolio of past work?

Thanks Spud but I think they are after a more legal proof side of things but I will ask them to go on my website and view previous jobs. it may help.

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Good luck with that. I can imagine their staff meetings discussing what they see as an insurmountable problem for something you may have done a hundred times before.

I guess if the time gets close, they will have to weigh up the perhaps increased costs of getting the tree felled by another, the risks if it falls over or drops a bough and hurts a pupil if left in situ (not knowing the health of the tree), the risk of you doing the job etc

If you can't get clearance then perhaps getting another on site with the magic qualification will do it and just stick the extra cost on the quote......customer always pays!

 

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I think youll find the answer to your question in your question..."the schools H&S officer....., ask the said person is it there interpretation of the wording, or ist it actually goverment H&S policy, I've had this problem with councill officers before and they like to think they are all powerfull, all that is reqd is to point out, they do not have the authority to change policy decided above there pay grade, and as they do not understand how the nptc assesment schemes work, then get someone superior who actually does,  a sideline mention of malfeasence in public office usually installs some fear

 

Edited by agrimog
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11 hours ago, Thesnarlingbadger said:

I see what you are saying and to be honest if I could get someone with a CS32 for a couple of hours then great but its finding someone who will be willing to do that who lives close enough.

 

 I will look in to this idea but I would not even be felling the stem. 

some things in life just seem to be put there to make your life as difficult and awkard as possible at times, i do a fair bit of work for  one of the uk,s major forestry companys and paper work it self is nearly a full time job and in my eyes 90% of it is a load of tosh but it keeps some one in a job some where, some one not far from you will have a CS32 just post on here i am sure some one would do it, i would if you wern,t 200 mile away, then just go and do CS32 yourself and then when the same issue crops up again no problem, the climber who had the PL ins claim who has just done his about £450 but when he was sorting this claim out he reckons his time back & fourth to soliciters has cost him 3 times that, the claim was 15 k + and he says it was one big lesson lernt, 

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14 hours ago, Thesnarlingbadger said:

I have a bit of an issue with one of my jobs I am planning to do at the moment with regards the health and safety.

 

 The Job is for a school and I have had to send over copies of all mine and the lads tickets to prove I am competent. All very well and not a problem. However I have been to quote for a job and one of the trees is to dismantle and cut right down to ground level. Now the health and safety at the school seem to think that because I don't have CS32 I can not climb and take down trees with a diameter larger than 380mm due to the fact CS31 states that you are capable of felling trees with a diameter no greater than 380mm.

 

 All very frustrating and I have spoken to the H&S lady over the phone and she seems like she is trying to find some information to prove that what I am saying (that I can climb trees of any size with a chainsaw) is correct but she has not had a response from the AA or can't get hold of anyone else to set her straight.

 

 

Hmmm, my initial reaction here is that if she, the school H&S lady, rang us we would say the contractor should hold CS39 (as was) and CS41, if rigging is required, and as the stem / 'stick' is usually felled once the crown is removed then the appropriate felling qualification, e.g. CS31 or CS32/33 ("over 380mm dia.") would also be required. We would however confirm there is no tree size restriction for climbing and dismantling.

 

Not sure this really helps your cause...and in stating the above I wholly recognize that many contractors are competent to fell trees over 380mm with only 'small tree felling' qual. but when dealing with H&S managers etc., and particularly if they have access to the PUWER ACOP (where all the quals are listed), you're going to come unstuck :/ 

 

Paul

 

PS Just read above and you say you wouldn't be felling the stem...hence don't need CS32. Tell her to call me (Paul Smith 01242 522152.)

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Hi Paul, thank you very much for this it’s really appreciated. I have had a couple of teachers tell the H&S that I would need CS32 unfortunately but I will see if I can get hold of her and ask her to ring you. So you may get a call shortly.

Thank you again this is greatly appreciated.

Cheers Eric

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4 minutes ago, Thesnarlingbadger said:

Hi Paul, thank you very much for this it’s really appreciated. I have had a couple of teachers tell the H&S that I would need CS32 unfortunately but I will see if I can get hold of her and ask her to ring you. So you may get a call shortly.

Thank you again this is greatly appreciated.

Cheers Eric

No problem Eric...however maybe think about putting "pen to paper", or finger to keyboard, as I will suggest she ask for a method statement that sets out how the job will be undertaken including how tree stem will be removed, e.g. sectioned / 'chogged' down.

 

Cheers,

Paul

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thats the other one they cant get there heads round.......wheres your method statement and risk assesment...........my usuall reply, in my head, as I dont employ more than 2 people I have no requirement to actually put one down on paper, and anyway as this is a job on a piece of living moving timber, the risk is constantly evolving as the job goes forward, do youwant me to stop and write a new risk assesment every time I do something that changes the situation, no problem, I'll adjust the charges accordinglly

 

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Feel your pain Badger.

We had to jump through a few hoops on a chemical factory site.

Every time I gave them what they asked for they asked for more.

Nothing too strenuous, got there after chasing a few things.

Site induction, then we were good to go.

Their own H&S guy appeared with his own bit of paper.

He thought it would be a good idea if we went up ladders first and cut a few branches off to ‘make things a bit safer’.

There was a full and frank exchange of views and he left us alone for 3 days.

 

The NPTC certs is still a very grey area to me.

Should CS 41 be ‘dismantling a tree but only up to 380mm dia unless you are going to chonk the stem right down to ground level’?

 

39? ‘cut bits off trees but not reduce or dismantle them (because for that you need 40 & 41)’?

 

It’s enough to drive you to drink.

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