Will Brexit increase the cost of your wood fuel?

[Paul in the woods]

7 hours ago, EdwardC said:

But we're about to close our biggest market by both sales and growth down. No doubt all the lamb that we're not selling to the EU can be exported to the USA. If only we could.

Who's closing the door? We import far more from the EU than we export so if they don't take our lamb are we going to buy their cars, wine, cheese, logs etc? And if Brexitamageddon happens and the pound falls dramatically the lamb will be very cheap to export.

 

Being Brexit/Remain fence sitter I do hope we get a better debate from both sides if we end up having another nevereferendum.

 

Going back to logs, if we use more UK sourced trees I expect the tracability is better. Anyone see this on the BBC?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-46377993/the-romanian-forest-that-s-disappearing

Quote

 

The Romanian forest that's disappearing

Cerna Valley National Park in Romania is home to one of Europe's last great beech forests.

But over half is unprotected by Unesco, and is currently facing extreme deforestation.

Environmentalist group Agent Green have been investigating the logging practices in the forest.

 

 

[devon TWiG]

Or we could eat the lamb ourselves and not import danish pork !

[nepia]

...just Buy British - lamb, pork, beef...

 

Said while trying not to sound jingoistic ?

[Haironyourchest]

2 hours ago, nepia said:

...just Buy British - lamb, pork, beef...

 

Said while trying not to sound jingoistic ?

Well why not? Why shouldn't countries be self sufficient in the things that they produce in abundance? Do we (you, UK)) really need to import lamb from New Zealand? Wine from France? South America and the States produce decent wine. Cheese can be made just about anywhere nowadays to be like cheese from anywhere else. In Ireland we have locally made Buffalo Mozzarella, from actual buffaloes, in Aldi. As good as Italian buffalo mozzarella to my tastebuds. Certain things, commodities like steel and fossil fuel obviously are location dependant. Just being a banking and "services" economy is really dangerous in the long run, makes for vulnerability in my mind. Quality of life is a real thing, and the cornucopia of choice we have today as consumers actually does no improve it, I feel. There comes a point at which you have so much choice on the shelves that it becomes silly, and food going to waste because theres too much there to sell it all.

[Big J]

I would venture that the main reason that imported logs are commercially viable is that the UK firewood market is having to compete with the RHI market. Given that the vast bulk of the log market is not RHI subsidised, it means that the customers buying our logs are doing so out of their own pocket. Contrast that with the fact that much of the roadside timber, hard and soft, goes to biomass now, you get an idea of why our raw material costs have increased. 

 

Increased cost of local production combined with what is a consistent and quality product available overseas means that there is a gap in the market for imported timber.

 

I'd like to think that more of the log production will be brought back onto home shores if Brexit happens, but then I'd like to think that that would happen regardless. Importing fuel that is effectively growing next door seems daft to me. 

 

But then I can't talk. I'm sending a lorry load of sawn ash from Devon to Scotland next week and they've got plenty of ash up there! ?

Edited December 2, 2018 by Big J

[nepia]

Thanks for the valid points chaps.

 

Big J - RHI is gobbledegook to me.  It sounds like your thinking is to scrap it...?

[Big J]

2 minutes ago, nepia said:

Thanks for the valid points chaps.

 

Big J - RHI is gobbledegook to me.  It sounds like your thinking is to scrap it...?

Renewable Heat Incentive - it's the driving force behind the adoption of biomass systems providing mainly heat and occasionally power. It's widely abused, with much of the heat being wasted as you're only paid for the KW you use, not what you produce. So there is an incentive to waste it. 

 

I remember hearing second hand that a large scale RHI plant had said that chipwood prices could reach £100/t and they'd still be profitable. I can't source that quote, nor remember who said it to me though.

 

To look at why firewood is expensive in the UK (and therefor why imported timber is commercially viable) you have to understand that there isn't enough hardwood firewood to supply demand. Logic would dictate that then you try to build the softwood market as it's more abundant, and let's face it, we'd all rather process softwood as hardwood takes three times as long. However, the softwood market is now so artificially inflated due to RHI that it's not a viable alternative so it redoubles the pressure on the hardwood, and as such opens the door for imports.

 

Just in the past three years, I've watched chipwood in Central Scotland go from an average of £28/t roadside to over £45/t. That rise could not have happened without RHI, which is a scheme that we are all paying for through our taxes.

[aesmith]

Just as the vaguest reference point, does anyone know the import duty which would apply now to firewood imports from outside the EU?   We're talking about import/export between UK and EU stopping, but isn't it more likely that it will continue with at worst some sorts of tariffs or limits.   I can't see why the UK would put in place a ban on import, or the EU a ban on export.

[Woodworks]

15 hours ago, nepia said:

 

To go back to your earlier comment about consumers not paying more for their firewood - if I remember correctly your prices are at the high end as the market goes (no inference intended - I'm sure the quality earns it) and you sell well.  That suggests to me that others would be prepared to pay more unless Dartmoor is inhabited by the country's most generous people!

I am fortunate there are quite a few wealthy retired sort close by who can afford it. Just speculating that if brexit is bad (it probably will  be) and we all feel it in our pockets luxuries like logs will be one of the first things to go.

 

I know darn well if I had to pay for logs our stove would become obsolete!

[nepia]

Thanks again.  Jonathan, RHI sounds like the archetypal politician's 'good idea', i.e a very bad one.

 

Beau, point taken about logs being a luxury.

 

So going back to my earlier speculation about domestic woodland management becoming viable the suggestion is now maybe not because the demand for firewood would drop due to non-firewood economic effects, i.e. the broader Brexit effect.

 

'Speculation' being the operative word; we're in the same position as all those pre-Brexit vote speculators who were making predictions!