Are air dried logs to be made illegal?

[Dan Maynard]

Reading that link seems Woodsure will be at APF and there is a seminar on Friday relating to the DEFRA consultation, unfortunately I can't make it but maybe if enough people turn up and complain they will take note?

[Kevlaney]

On 21/08/2018 at 08:38, Alycidon said:

As a stove retailer I feel that not only is this a positive move but the max moisture content should be lowered to 16%.   I have by far more problems with customers feeding their stoves wet wood than all the other issues put together.    Some log sellers seem to think that seasoning logs starts the day the tree comes down,  alas its only once the log has been split or the bark has fallen off that most timbers can dry out.  

 

However there are nowhere near enough civil servants to enforce current smoke control regulations,  I cant see any way that this can be enforced other than following a complaint from a home owner about smoke emissions from a house nearby.   But it gives Hetas a nice little earner !!,  all suppliers to be registered, cost of initial registration plus annual costs as a per ton sold basis.     Think it would have to put £10 onto the price of a cubic m of logs given my volumes.   You have to keep an audit trail of where their cord comes from and are subject to annual audit to include taking at random sample of their ready for sale stock for in depth analysis.  I would like to think that anyone seen with a load of logs on the back is likely to be stopped and checked but by who and with whose support.  No Police any more so they wont help,  to busy catching speeding motorists. 

 

Be interesting to see how it pans out, we live in interesting times !!.

 

A

What about if the customer leaves the wood out in the wet?

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Kevlaney
spelling

[Alycidon]

19 hours ago, Kevlaney said:

What about if the customer leaves the wood out in the wet?

 

Thats down to them,  as long as when the logs leave the care of the seller they are good thats all we can do.  

 

 Log storage is something I cover in my new stove owner info pack supplied free with all new stoves.   Usually logs are either stores in a garage or a dedicated log store,  this will allow air ( and rain) to get at the ends but a decent roof on the top keeps the rain out of the bulk.  I have had an old lady complain her stove would not generate any heat,  went and got it going and no problems,  asked about her fuel storage,  she put them in the pond for a couple of weeks otherwise they burnt to fast !!.  

 

A

 

[Woodworks]

22 minutes ago, Alycidon said:

 

 

 Log storage is something I cover in my new stove owner info pack supplied free with all new stoves.   Usually logs are either stores in a garage or a dedicated log store,  this will allow air ( and rain) to get at the ends but a decent roof on the top keeps the rain out of the bulk. 

 

You advocate sub 16% logs but dont suggest sealed log stores. Do you not agree that ambient humidity will make their moisture content go higher?

Edited September 24, 2018 by Woodworks

[neiln]

Whether he agrees or not it will go higher.  I looked it up a year or so ago, with a short search I found a table from either UK or us forestry giving equilibrium MC for top covered wood, by ambient temp and humidity.  Looking up UK average conditions I found in the South East (likely the warmest and driest in the UK but I didn't check that) wood would reach 18-19%mc in January February time.  To stay at 16, which may well be achievable for air dried by September time, would require heated or dehumidified storage, not just covered.

[Alycidon]

I use a £35 Morso moisture meter so probably not bang on accurate.   I usually billet over size stuff in May/june then store outside on bearers for nine months, cut to length and store in vented bags in a dutch barn with three open sides the following spring.  Sub 250mm cord gets put through the processor in the spring whole.      On my gauge its about 8% external at this time of year,  by the spring its risen to about 12 - 14% again external. 

 

AT the end of the day a couple of percent here and there is not that important, Hetas are now allowing 20% under their wood sure scheme.   I have today been burn Euc in the showroom stove,  only felled this spring my gauge said 19% so I thought I would give it a go.  It burnt yes but not as well as I would like and will therefore be stored for another year in vented bags.

 

A 

[gdh]

It's going to depend a lot where you are the country, here in mid Wales we can dry to less than 10% and it will balance out to 17 in a month or two.  

 

Interestingly I noticed recently that Certainly Wood who are pushing for the new regulations only average 20% on their kiln dried.

 

Personally I think under 25 is acceptable and under 20 is good, I haven't come across a log burner that wouldn't burn that and would avoid any that did struggle. 

[aesmith]

I've seen these figures published in other forms, but this document gives estimates for moisture content (EMC) at a number of locations on a month by month basis.  The figures for Scotland suggest it shouldn't be rising even as far as 20%.  Our own firewood certainly doesn't but I accept we do have a particularly effective store with shelter, airflow and a south facing wall.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/equilibrium_moisture_content.pdf

[Squaredy]

2 hours ago, aesmith said:

I've seen these figures published in other forms, but this document gives estimates for moisture content (EMC) at a number of locations on a month by month basis.  The figures for Scotland suggest it shouldn't be rising even as far as 20%.  Our own firewood certainly doesn't but I accept we do have a particularly effective store with shelter, airflow and a south facing wall.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/equilibrium_moisture_content.pdf

EMC is equilibrium moisture content.  Most parts of the UK will be more damp than most parts of the USA sadly.

[aesmith]

That document has figures for the UK, and if you look at Aberdeen for example they vary between 15.5% and a maximum of 18.4%

Edited October 7, 2018 by aesmith