Climbers death - kick back.

[Joe Newton]

Katie, no-one is suggesting that aerial rescue and first aid training aren't important. it's something I take seriously. It sounds like the rescue climber did a good job in terrible circumstances.

What I'm saying is that from what I've read of the situation, the contributing factor was poor working practices, not lack of first aid or rescue training, which your initial post implied.

[Katie at FoxMedics]

3 hours ago, Joe Newton said:

Katie, no-one is suggesting that aerial rescue and first aid training aren't important. it's something I take seriously. It sounds like the rescue climber did a good job in terrible circumstances.

What I'm saying is that from what I've read of the situation, the contributing factor was poor working practices, not lack of first aid or rescue training, which your initial post implied.

Standards need to change, that's for sure.. I never forget when I first joined the Ambulance Service and  an arborist fell and went into cardiac arrest due to the fall, it was his colleagues who  were the ones initially performing CPR to him. The whole situation was terribly sad and unfortunately the poor guy passed away. I have subsequently taught these guys Arb Specific First Aid and it still affects them to this day, which is bound to do. Accidents do happen generally in life, whether a freak occurrence or human error, but one thing is for sure that an accident in your industry is no way the same as a fight with a stapler. 

Safety standards need to be improved, something needs to change from these tragic incidents.

Thanks Joe for the comments and encouraging food for thought.

[devon TWiG]

 I do not think safety standards  need to improve , the existing  standards are more than adequate they just  need to be more closely   adhered to and complied with ,  on the whole they are  , and risks can only be reduced not eliminated . ..... even paramedics / Ambulance drivers  must crash or hurt them selves on occasion .

[Katie at FoxMedics]

On ‎23‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 16:13, devon TWiG said:

 I do not think safety standards  need to improve , the existing  standards are more than adequate they just  need to be more closely   adhered to and complied with ,  on the whole they are  , and risks can only be reduced not eliminated . ..... even paramedics / Ambulance drivers  must crash or hurt them selves on occasion .

Hi sorry for late reply. Yes of course there are accidents and incidents in the ambulance service but things are dealt with in a completely different manner. If there is an accident or incident in the ambulance service, depending on the severity, the person involved maybe taken away from practice until the incident has been investigated, they may also be asked to write a reflection of practice on how it could be prevented in future, also a policy maybe introduced that all ambulance personal within that trust (ours covers 6 counties) would have to follow. If there was a death this would be intensified. We have mandatory training which as it states we have to attend each year if not twice a year and will be refresher or update training.

Do you have to refresh on any of your tickets or practices apart from First Aid every 3 years?, (which then can be a normal Emergency First Aid at Work course unless you have a contract with the Forestry Commission then its Arb Specific).

This is not meant to point fingers and blame but there is a whole world of difference between the ambulance service and the Arb world when it comes to change after an incident. 

This post has certainly got people thinking which is brilliant and also discussing about the issue. This poor guys life should not be just swept under the carpet and not get people thinking about the seriousness and hazardous nature of your industry. Even if a handful of people reflect on their work practice then brilliant.

[Craig Johnson]

Katie,  the rules and regulations within our industry are more than adequate, and include refreshers. All the safeguarding in the world can't prevent things like this and and the rules for others should not be changed because of it.

 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

4 hours ago, Craig Johnson said:

Katie,  the rules and regulations within our industry are more than adequate, and include refreshers. All the safeguarding in the world can't prevent things like this and and the rules for others should not be changed because of it.

 

 

1 incident should not (I just can't imagine a scenario where I might doubt that) lead to widespread policy change - that would be called knee-jerk over reaction and would have the very real potential to throw up unforeseen consequences whilst simultaneously destabilising the training syllabi and creating disparity and confusion between more recent and less recently trained individuals (people on the same site / team working to different standards.)  

 

It might be acceptable practice in a bloated, overly risk averse, 'prefer to be seen to be doing something rather than properly thinking through the longer term implications of what it is you're doing', pseudo public sector organisation, meanwhile in the real world....   

 

Tragic as this incident is, the lesson identified is fairly straight forward - hold the XXX saw with both hands, allow enough time for the job, take care.  

[TIMON]

It would be interesting (not pleasant but beneficial) to be able to look at these instances and analyse what was actually happening and what went wrong.

1. What part of the tree was being cut? , I.e removing a limb back to the stem.
2. What work positioning was being adopted?
3. How was the saw being used?
4. Was he/she using the pushing or pulling side of the bar?
5. How was the bar aligned in relation to his body or work position?
6. Was he cutting and holding?
Etc.
It’s all very well just saying “he was one handing the saw” but it doesn’t give the full picture.
We all know there are times when one handing the saw is appropriate for the specific task.
It would be good if the industry could learn from these tragedies in a way that provided practical training that actually worked out in real life/work scenarios rather than just saying “don’t one hand the saw” or “fit bar tip guards”