A public "good" must be paid for from the public purse

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

What did we replace oil tankers with when it was realised that flushing out their cargo bays just off shore was environmental suicide?

 

What did we replace asbestos with when it was realised that it had disastrous health implications?

 

What are we looking to replace road diesel with now it's been realised that it's choking the life out of children?

 

What happened when ships reached the edge of the flat planet?

 

I could go on (at the risk of venturing into the ridiculous) but I'm sure you'll grasp the intent.....

 

😳

 

Industries evolve, good practice can (and should) get BETTER, safer and less harmful to the environment.

 

I cannot think of any other industry that so vociferously claims to be a custodian of the countryside whilst simultaneously, and with apparent impunity, abuses it.

 

Your question - what would I replace farming with - is (with the greatest of respect) a melodramatic attempt to avoid the actual question which should perhaps be - why are too many cattle run on too little land resulting in depletion of soil nutrients, fertilising and weed killing vast swathes of monoculture fields of grass, over-stocking, excess feed cost, milk being sold below production cost, sickening levels of losses to mastitis, production of slurry far beyond that which can be reasonably managed?

 

Re-wilding.... yes perhaps, in part, maybe in conjunction with a more sustainable, honest and less harmful approach to farming.

[gdh]

What did we replace oil tankers with when it was realised that flushing out their cargo bays just off shore was environmental suicide?

 

What did we replace asbestos with when it was realised that it had disastrous health implications?

 

What are we looking to replace road diesel with now it's been realised that it's choking the life out of children?

 

What happened when ships reached the edge of the flat planet?

 

I could go on (at the risk of venturing into the ridiculous) but I'm sure you'll grasp the intent.....

 

😳

 

Industries evolve, good practice can (and should) get BETTER, safer and less harmful to the environment.

 

I cannot think of any other industry that so vociferously claims to be a custodian of the countryside whilst simultaneously, and with apparent impunity, abuses it.

 

Your question - what would I replace farming with - is (with the greatest of respect) a melodramatic attempt to avoid the actual question which should perhaps be - why are too many cattle run on too little land resulting in depletion of soil nutrients, fertilising and weed killing vast swathes of monoculture fields of grass, over-stocking, excess feed cost, milk being sold below production cost, sickening levels of losses to mastitis, production of slurry far beyond that which can be reasonably managed?

 

Re-wilding.... yes perhaps, in part, maybe in conjunction with a more sustainable, honest and less harmful approach to farming.

 

I see a lot of posts from you about farming and, although I suspect you're playing devils advocate, you seem to use examples of bad practice to judge the industry as a whole instead of viewing them alongside all the good that farming does and don't seem to have much knowledge of the industry. I could of course be wrong.

 

In terms of overgrazing etc it's easy to say we should cut back but while there is plenty of improvements to be made the biggest issue is that Britain doesn't produce enough food to feed itself.

 

Importing food is easy enough of course but it's only cheap and easily available because it comes from countries with less environmental and welfare regulations so it's just moving the problem not solving it.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

, you seem to use examples of bad practice to judge the industry as a whole instead of viewing them alongside all the good that farming does.

 

 

 

In terms of overgrazing etc it's easy to say we should cut back but while there is plenty of improvements to be made the biggest issue is that Britain doesn't produce enough food to feed itself.[\QUOTE]

 

 

It would be an entirely self defeating exercise if I had a point (any point) but then countered it myself!

 

It someone disagrees strongly enough with what I've written, perhaps they might list the "positives" as a counter argument.

 

I could talk about the other paragraph but bit short of time this morning.

[Stubby]

I felt sorry for the Dutch dairy farmer to a degree as she said she had been encouraged by the the Dutch Gov to up milk production some years before and geared her business up to cope with 180 cows with the latest robot milking parlor and now has to loose 50 from the heard which will make her go under .

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I felt sorry for the Dutch dairy farmer to a degree as she said she had been encouraged by the the Dutch Gov to up milk production some years before and geared her business up to cope with 180 cows with the latest robot milking parlor and now has to loose 50 from the heard which will make her go under .

 

 

I agree Stubby, disjointed and contradictory government/EU policy is outrageous, wholly unfair, deleterious to economic stability and damaging to public faith in the political institutions.

 

Genuinely, it is scandalously inept to "encourage" then, so soon after, "penalise."

 

Wether it will result in the business going under, or compensatory reimbursement would be fascinating to know. It would also be fascinating to know if the upscaling was grant or private money funded. How ironic if it WAS grant funded only now to be scaled back - that would be an epic (but sadly common) total waste of public money.

 

There's every possibility that owners of older DERV automobiles will be facing a similar reversal of government incentive quite soon if I understand correctly.

[drinksloe]

Most of the problems u've highlighted are absolutely nothing to do with the farmers and all to do with EU/civil servants, and stupid policies.

 

A few years ago in my area the building/plant/civil trades where on there arse absolutley no work going apart from 2 roads jobs and 2 windmills, (so basically all government funded jobs) all 4 jobs main contractos were iriish who generally only employ irish subbies, esp so with the plant/civil engineering side as seemingly there was some EU grant for new plant which made them far more competative when rendering against UK based companies.

Those big long term jobs would really have helped the local area at that time.

So its not just farmers who get grants but generally there not competing with anyone else.

 

Mibee after brexit is the time to really look at the agri industry (esp the hold supermarkets have, not just on farmers but supplies in general) and change do away with the grants altogether.

But i'm sure u will be the 1st to moan when ur weekly food shop goes up

 

I also find it hard to believe many/any farms nowadays have slurry/effluent runing straight into burns.

Yes 30 years ago but not now, it used to be the norm 30yrs ago, in my area i've never seen the burns so clean.

Which is baked up by the massive numbers of otters living in them

[Goaty]

New zealand having a soil that ameliorates rapidly suffers from efficiencies.

A small area is irrigated then stocked at a heavy ratio. Then stock taken off . irrigated and fert applied restocked again. All the while the fert, urine and dung rapidly flushed into river systems. Algae bloom along with imported didymo. Snuffs out the life sustaining sun shine.

But nah we'll carry on it works well. ..kg beef per acre.

Got to be a better way. Its. Just getting producers out of their safe routine.

 

People only tend to care about their own back yard concerns.

The haulage industry gets most of the moving done. Yet its a maligned industry. Not supported, persecuted more likely.

 

Every industry should be able to stand on its own merit.

 

How much was that new tractor again?

 

Sent from my LG-K100 using Arbtalk mobile app

Edited April 10, 2017 by Goaty

[eggsarascal]

Most of the problems u've highlighted are absolutely nothing to do with the farmers and all to do with EU/civil servants, and stupid policies.

 

A few years ago in my area the building/plant/civil trades where on there arse absolutley no work going apart from 2 roads jobs and 2 windmills, (so basically all government funded jobs) all 4 jobs main contractos were iriish who generally only employ irish subbies, esp so with the plant/civil engineering side as seemingly there was some EU grant for new plant which made them far more competative when rendering against UK based companies.

Those big long term jobs would really have helped the local area at that time.

So its not just farmers who get grants but generally there not competing with anyone else.

 

Mibee after brexit is the time to really look at the agri industry (esp the hold supermarkets have, not just on farmers but supplies in general) and change do away with the grants altogether.

But i'm sure u will be the 1st to moan when ur weekly food shop goes up

 

I also find it hard to believe many/any farms nowadays have slurry/effluent runing straight into burns.

Yes 30 years ago but not now, it used to be the norm 30yrs ago, in my area i've never seen the burns so clean.

Which is baked up by the massive numbers of otters living in them

 

I'm not getting into the subsidy side of this but, it is nonsense to suggest slurry/effluent isn't running straight into burns (watercourses).

 

It is fact that after the major water companies, who have thousands of assets linked to watercourses, that the farming industry in the UK is the biggest polluter.

[Mull]

I'm not getting into the subsidy side of this but, it is nonsense to suggest slurry/effluent isn't running straight into burns (watercourses).

 

 

 

It is fact that after the major water companies, who have thousands of assets linked to watercourses, that the farming industry in the UK is the biggest polluter.

 

 

Probably mostly your/our slurry and effluent:)

 

 

Edit:

Most of that floods straight onto arbtalk!

 

Sent from my iPhone using Arbtalk

Edited April 10, 2017 by Mull

[eggsarascal]

Probably mostly your/our slurry and effluent:)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Arbtalk

 

Yes! That's why I said 'after the major water companies', who pour raw shite into rivers. Most of that is by consent of the EA mind.

 

Although some take the p1ss (see what I did there?).