WesD

I’m not religious whatsoever but have an open mind. I buy 98% of this consciousnesses debate however I feel there is a free will be it limited, most inputs are forced through our senses and our outputs are automated like we have said through past experiences and what not but we are still left with a choice whether you believe that is free will or sub conscious letting you believe in free will is probably a personal belief and how you believe your wired internally. I believe it’s free will and the choice isn’t pre made I’ll now say why I believe this, I have had a few goes at meditating now and when I’m deep in the process I can see thoughts shapes and lights I can choose to ride a thought and see it for what it is or leave it and look at another or watch them go whilst holding onto the breath but in that state I can choose where I go and when to end my session it’s quite liberating I know I’m not being guided and can see it for what it is. I believe now however it is your choice you have the option of control and or free will. Inventors more than likely made the choice to have free will for they had to think and invent something that never existed and in that sense couldn’t have been guided by experience of past thoughts they had to train the brain so to speak to think of something for its first time and creation of thought created invention.

Yep happy new year everyone.

I’m still 98% with you, our brains/computers I can agree for the most part are automated, in meditation I can see there is a lot that goes on however for an output to stick it needs an input, let’s use a noise again if you hear something your brain will piece together what it thinks it’s heard and predict what has happened all with your eyes still shut so you minds eye let’s say tells you it was a car driving down the street probably too fast going off the sound (so far all automated) What then remembers your meditating and pulls you back to that breath? What tells you to remember we are meditating and to leave your thoughts for the breath?

You are supposed to walk/run against the flow, you can see what’s happening. Walking/running with the flow you can’t see traffic and easily get tagged.

I’m sure it Will Heal. Sorry couldnt resist.

That’s brilliant!!!

It’s a great topic this which I am finding myself thinking about it more and more in my spare time. I am asking myself to think it over and mull the possibilities and understand the meaning and possibilities of having free will and how it would work and not having free will and how that would work and I am kind of in the middle. Even automated computers woth coding we can’t understand need input and direction. Think of aeroplanes they are fantastic machines run by computers yet they need a few things to aid them, whilst 90% of flights are automated take off and landings aren’t they need a pilot yet more important than that they need a destination otherwise where would they go? When would they stop? I have come to the conclusion that like you say religion and no self no free will shouldn’t be thought of together on the basis that religion is based on free will. The one thing we can do that our brain can’t control is to ask it a question, have a minute then ask yourself to think of any topic and think deep about that topic. Yes your brain put forward topics to put to you and yes what you know and think about within that topic was already there from past experiences etc however you called upon it. You asked for a topic so it served you automatically but you guided you gave an input. Outputs I can see are wholly automated but the inputs can be manipulated. Much like google without an enquiry it’s a pretty pointless computer. Everything is already there but how does it know what to give you?

Haha, I move their trolleys!

I wouldn’t say struggling more like exploring. I have to start with a little about my personality I have to break things down and truly understand the inner workings before committing myself to the cause, I can’t go completely from what others say I need to really buy into it to believe by exhausting both sides of the equation. This usually starts like this thread I fall upon something of interest and explore internally first then when I’m ready externally. As of yet I have done no such research or watched any of the videos posted because well that is their understanding of the subject I need to make my own first without delving deeper. I do have an open mind I’m yet to be decided on this. Ill also make it known my mind is in an excellent place and I am not drinking whilst the wife is pregnant, it’s been a long 7 months. (Is that free will?) As above. It’s strange you believe there is no self yet start your 2nd paragraph with I think. Could it it be possible that a large portion of what you say is true and yes the processes are automatic but we still need some steering, more to follow... Every thought is derived from a sense, be it sight, sound, touch, smell or taste. Next time you meditate your using the sound of your breaths to relax yet whenever you break from concentration concentrate on that thought it will stem from a sense ie a noise, if you hear a car that’s what your thought will be then you’ll break that thought to go back to breath. Now that backs up what you say it’s an automated system we heard the car our brain confirmed it from past experience BUT think of the next time you plug some headphones in and listen to your iPod did your brain need that or did you want that. You can choose to expose your sight to a film our brains don’t need that or necessarily crave it. We have to eat yet we don’t eat the same food constantly. Now using hazardous times is a great start as that says our brains or automated computer helped us survive and evolve and I have no doubt in that however if we had no free will we would continue on this path but we ain’t we are kind of self destructing why would our brains want us to over indulge with food say which leads to type 2 diabetes or smoke 20 a day which can lead to cancer or lie on a sunbed under some tubes for a tan at the potential cost of again cancer etc etc etc Can we say that our computers are decolving and choosing options to shorten our lifespan based on information received at which point it isn’t learning, or progressing us like it has in the past or do us humans have some choice when we get to the end of that garden path we have been lead down? .....

I see sherrill and notch both do a safebloc, are they the same for wear and tear etc or is 1 better than the other?

I wouldn’t have had you down as being that naive?! Your usually a fountain of wisdom.

Do you think they are the only ones to do it or first to be named and shamed?

That’s a tough one because of how ignorant motorists are towards cyclists!

Ok so back to free will, everything we do is based on our brains guiding us via past experiences and best guessing based on experiences we have previously had but once we have to make a decision does our brain do the maths and we chose the most favourable hence no free will or do we still get the choice to go against that and chose the option we believe to be the least favourable can that be perceived as free will or did our brain know we would choose that and give us the pat on the back anyway at which point if that is the case surely our computer is selling us short?! In a coin toss what if when the coin was in the air you merely didn’t call? Kind of like green on the roulette wheel? So while the coin is in the air your brain is working out options based on the info and it knows based on the info and past experiences it’s 50/50 so does it pick for you or let you choose as it doesn’t matter it’s 50/50 if it’s the latter then it could be perceived we have free will (granted when it doesn’t matter). What if if we are lead down the garden path by our super computer but when we get to the end if the odds are 50/50 choice is ours? After all even computers have glitches. Using the coin toss again if I toss that coin 10 times using past experiences and information we know it’s 50/50 so one would think what you choose is irrelevant however if you decided on heads you’d pick that for all 10 coin toss’s However in practice that is never the case people swap and change trying to beat the odds so to speak. Is that free will or our brains if it’s our brains we are rather inefficient as we know probability and should stick with heads if we go against that is it free will? Deep.

Ok so my meditation session was .... interesting. I tried to meditate like explained concentrating on your breathing. I kind of struggled to maintain concentration on breath as thoughts on other things kept trying to ruminate, you said this would happen so after 5 minutes of back and forth to the breath I actually give in to the thoughts and let them flow concentrating on letting them happen without interruption and wow what a busy place the brain is very receptive to anything we do or in this state don’t do. It was far more relaxing being a passenger to the thoughts without trying to stop or control them than it was to keep concentrating on the breath as every time you think or hear something you break concentration so to speak to go back to the breath it’s quite a bit of work. It was was much easier to become lost and a passenger to my thoughts and let it happen then muse it all over after I had finished. Very relaxing process. Ill try the breath each thing again but will probably revert back to the relax process I fell on.

Nice, my last posting was at bramcote 30 Sigs. I’ll have been out 10 years in June mind so it was a long time ago now.

People try and read your paper i) over your shoulder or ii) before you have read it!!!

A customer knows you are coming but can’t be arsed to remove dog shit from the garden!!

Your not too old but you will have to learn fast when climbing by that I mean get used to mechanical friction devices or ways of climbing that are more efficient and less taxing than a prussic. The fact that your in your 40’s can work for you, I highly doubt you’ll be out all weekend on the lash late for work everyday or a general let down, the fact you want another job alongside your ft shifts shows dedication and a willingness to work. If your graft is as good as your ethic you would be a bonus to most. Working PT may suit firms as they aren’t having to commit to a ft wage but do need the extra help on jobs however you need to bear in mind this would be on their terms so you may not get the work for your ideal schedule but theirs. Good of luck and all the best.

I’ll set 10 minutes aside later and give this a whirl, I’m always open minded I’ll report back later mind you (pun intended) it will be tonight when I get 10 mins to myself if I tried it now on breath 3 I’d be interrupted with Daaaaaad never mind thoughts!

Ok there’s a couple of pet hates so come on what are yours? Lets see where this thread takes us, all a bit of fun mind.

Probably Mick.

You put your card in a cash machine and choose cash only then it asks if you would like to see your balance why!!! I pressed cash only, ok compose press no then it’s would you like a reciept with this transaction WTF I pressed cash only I’m sure before we started this dance my options where 1 cash only 2 see balance before transaction 3 cash with reciept.

You nip to a garage for a loaf of bread, you place the loaf on the counter and say “just that please” to which they always respond “any fuel?” Why!!!!!!!!

I like what he likes but he no like what I like. Like!