trigger_andy

I’m glad we don’t have fluoride in Scotland. Start of a slippery slope if they start to introduce it into Scotland but hopefully it will be some years before it reaches me.

They dont want to have their eyes opened. The fact you've even written such a term will have them scoffing and calling you a Tin Foil Hat wearer. What an incredibly closeted world they must live in. Ignorance is bliss and the levels of ignorance the usual suspects display is ironically eye opening in itself.

No long before the Weegies have their water fluorinated it seems. https://news.stv.tv/west-central/fluoride-could-be-added-to-tap-water-used-by-more-than-a-million-scots

I’d be getting security cameras up as well.

Oil & Gas and Electricity is basically under state control in Norway and they have not had their prices capped. Prices for both are through the roof. If fact Sweden is buying cheap electricity in the North of Norway and selling it for a vast profit to the South of Norway. Both Gas and Electricity is sold from Norway to Europe and the Norwegian people are paying a significant price for both now. Those that believe the State would step in and cap the prices are naïve in the extreme. The state offered a measly 5p off of Fuel Duty when fuel prices where at their peak when they could have gone significantly further.

Everyone should pay tax, end of. If you're earning a wage you should be contributing a fair share. I dont believe £3500 is a far share of £30,000, not when that person is entitled to benefits that will greatly diminish that 'contribution'. As Ive also previously mentions the system in Norway vastly fairer. The tax burden is far more evenly distributed and the tax free threshold is significantly lower than the UK.

Again, if you’re referring to me then I’ll happily reply. Yes, I live in Scotland but I work in Norway. I’m employed full time on a Norwegian Contract and have been so since 2009. There is a reciprocal tax agreement between the UK and Norway so that we are taxed in the country we work and not the country we reside. Although I pay a significant portion of my tax in Norway I do still pay some tax in the U.K. and make voluntary NI contributions. Im happy with the tax I currently pay in both countries. My U.K. tax contributions certainly covers my younger daughters education and their access to the NHS, I like to look upon the surplus as a donation to the more needy. My Norwegian tax allows me access to a far higher standard of working life. A Work Pension that I don’t contribute to that paid in 5% of total earnings a year. A world class State Pension that is more of a personal pot that increases the more you earn. Unparalleled Sick Leave within the EU allowing a full years Sick Leave on full pay. Child Benefit for all children under 18 years of age. In short high taxation with benefits for all, not just the workshy or uneducated.

Since you quoted my post I assume you’re referring to me? There's some highly intelligent people here. I don’t consider myself anywhere as near as clever as these individuals and I’d be interested in what posts you’re referring to where I’ve stated that I consider myself clever. I certainly don’t remember doing so and I’m quite happy being average or slightly above average in intelligence. I do know that I’ve mentioned a few times that my wife is by far the more intelligent of the two of us and that’s where our children have inherited their intelligence from. I think the tax that is paid in the U.K. for someone earning the wage I do is disproportionate. The thing is I don’t pay tax in the U.K. I pay tax in Norway which has a far more balanced and fair tax system. So you’re wrong, I’m satisfied with the tax I pay. I’m also extremely satisfied with the state pension I earn in Norway, the sick leave pay, the child benefit payments and the paternity leave (or cash payments). The UK State Pension will be a nice wee top off bonus. We certainly are laughing, but I’ll leave the gifs to you and Les. Both about as childish as each other.

The insurance bit? We’re discussing income tax, not insurance. But if you include the insurance it’s just over £6100 on a £30,000 wage. That’s like 20% tax total. A piss take really. But then someone on £30k a year will potentially be entitled various benefits. Child benefit for example. When these are taken into consideration the actual tax paid drops significantly.

If you say so. But it’s worth keeping in mind the State does not generate an income. It’s funded by taxation, and rightly so. The gripe is the perceived injustice in how that taxation is weighed. Currently I believe it’s drastically unfair to those who early above the median. This I believe will only get worse as things get really bad next year. I imagine Sturgeon will yet again tell those “with the broadest shoulders” that they need to pay an even higher percentage to cover the gaping hole caused by what some would say is the massive con that Covid proved to be.

No. Dave paid for his childrens education and most likely yours as well.

I have no idea where you are going with this. But I understand that the NHS and education systems need paid for. I pay or have paid significant amounts of tax and NI to amply cover this. Regardless, this does not take away from the fact there is a seriously disproportionate amount of tax and NI paid by thought who are seen as higher earners and those on lower wages pay close to feck all.

Not really. I clearly stated income tax.

It should be like that now! Far to many pay virtually nothing in tax. Even at £30k a year income tax is only £3,500.

Its criminal they start to take your tax free allowance off of you once you go over £100k.

In the O&G Service industry here in Norway its law that we have the right to strike every second year if wage and condition negotiations are not agreed. Last year was the year where the Unions negotiate but are not allowed to strike and we still got 3% on our wages. This year the Unions can bark as well as bite so will go for significant improvements. Im glad there is so many industries standing up for themselves here in the UK. Wages have stagnated for far to long and inflation is stripping them even further. There needs to be a huge step change and the only way to force that through is industrial action and with the backing of the population.

I know your initial point was not directed at me but surely your earnings and how you spend your money does change your class? There is a number of generally accepted key indicators that define your social class, this has nothing to do with how you conduct yourself. Fore example you could be a cleaner or Arb worker on minimum wage and be a lovely person who is a great father/mother, role model and does volunteering on the weekends, none of that will change the fact this person is working class as the key indicators define that class. The same goes for someone who is middle or upper class, they might be total arseholes and abuse their family and employees but being a horrid person does not define their social class either, the key indicators do. For example, Rishi Sunak is clearly Upper to Elite Class. How do we know or define this? Clearly its not according to his personality or how nice a person he is. We can hardly say that he's a despicable POS therefore he must be working class can we? Wages are being eroded and inflated away in the UK, the only way to mitigate this is through strike action. I am in the very fortunate position to be employed in Norway where Unions and strike action are not seen in a negative light as they are in the UK. There is far to many jealous people in the UK who would rather see the Train Drivers lose their £60k a year instead of using this as a benchmark to better increase their wages.

Your confusing social classes with personality traits.

Yes, its all about money. They may be asset rich put cash poor but if they sell their estates for they will have a lot of money. They have the money, its just all tied up and generally done so to avoid paying tax. You're taxed on your earnings, if you dont earn money (on paper) you dont pay tax. That how they are rich. Only the plebs pay tax. When I go I want to go like my Grandfather soundly sleeping, not like his passengers screaming as they drove off the bridge.

I dont believe I am looking at this through O&G tinted glasses though. I feel its irrelevant in this instance. The Cambridge definition does not exclude a £60k wage as a working class one as far as I can tell. 1, belonging to a social group that consists of people who earn less than other groups, -£60k is still less than other groups though, for example O&G, Banking, Insurance, NHS Diversity and Inclusion Officers. 2, often being paid only for the hours or days that they work, and who usually do physical work rather than work for which you need an advanced education”- As Eggs mentioned, there is plenty out there on £200-£300 a day who are paid for physical labour and the hours that they work. £250 a day for 24 days a month and 12 months a year is £72,000 a year. Taking some holidays and you'll still be over £60k a year. My own Brother who is in the building trade and basically does odd-jobbing these days has made over £75k so far this year. £60k is not a great wage in the traditional nuclear family setting is it? With a single income from either spouse, you'll live an ok working class lifestyle off of that. You'll not be able to afford to buy much of a house on that wage. You certainly will not be able to afford more than one average holiday a year. You not afford any of the indicators that mark a family as middle class thats for sure. Even if both partners earn £60k a year you might find yourself on the bottom rung of middle class but I dont you'll be taking two exotic holidays a year, have two new vehicles, have a large detached house with grounds, or send your children to private school. People have gotten far to used to living on £120 a day and thinking thats a good wage. Thats laborer money. Even my 19 year old is getting over £10 an hour working at KFC ffs. Now thats a working class job.

£60k is very much a working class wage though. We have just grown far to used to living on slave wages. If you take the traditional mortgage being three times your salary £60k does not even buy you an ex-council house these days. With the cost of running a car, utilities, food etc £60k will not afford you anything over a very basic working class lifestyle. Long gone are the days that an average working class man could support his family on a single wage. To think people these days thinks £30k is a good wage would be laughable if it was not so sad.

I have the same issue, I think I need to dig up my Hallway and get a membrane and insulation down.

But how could he copy & paste THE LAW OF THE LAND!!!!?

Firelighters are great, but then I like most things the Devil tempts us with.

I chuck a firefighter in. Then literally throw some kindling or processing chips on top then dump a few slender logs in and have never had a problem. I’m lighting at least one stove a day, generally two and don’t have the inclination to go all arty-farty with it. Pollution? Give over! 🤣🤣🤣