Haironyourchest

Head down the army surplus (army and nave store) and pick up last decade's gore-tex gear. Cheaper and probably better than high street....

Thanks for your thoughts Spud, Re. the duel intake vs single intake I had the same feeling, even not being a mechanical guy, as such. I have watched the vid before, and just watched it again now. That x-torq appears to have duel intakes, it looks like a robust and proper design. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling etc...Is that the same set up that is used in all Husq gear then? I will try to find out and report back, hopefully someone will beat me to it. If Sthil has the rights to the patent then why do they put a single intake in their flagship saw and not just a regular x-torq? Just doesn't make sense to me.... Thanks again for your time and knowledge, wishing you a great Sunday afternoon Spud.

Spud, I have been following a s**t slinging fight on Arboristsite over the strato oiling issue this afternoon. There seems to be no definitive answer, but I would be using 40:1 HP Ultra as a matter of course. What bothers me is that there seems to be different designs of strato depending on the brand and also between saws of the same brand. The 461 appears to have a single intake carb and then splits the air from there? And then theres this "ramp" that targets the mix to the crank bearings. Then others seem to have duel carbs. Some appear to use clean air as a gaffer and others recirculate the exhaust?? Its all very vague. My fear is that I'll buy the saw and two years time there'll be a general consensus that the particular strato variant in my saw is the 'wrong' one....grrrrr Why oh why is there no info anywhere, like a cutaway of each of these motors and a simple comparison of them? There must be tons of knackerd motors laying around in buckets in sheds around the world. If anyone has one please cut it in half with a grinder and post to youtube. I will do the same should any come my way, If we all do it maybe we can all make more info red decisions....

See? Another vote for madness as the cause behind this behaviour.... I would not approach Gary under any circumstances, for fear of a violent reaction. Talk with Sue about it and gather information. Do you and Gary share any mutual friends whom you trust? Maybe see if they have heard anything from Gary that may shed light....I had this experience with a pal once, who literally went delusional on me, and accused me of a theft seven years back...it was totally out of the blue and illogical....he had done some speed a few nights previously and the drug seemed to have triggered some smouldering psychosis...three weeks later he apologised in tears....

Thanks Eddie I'll look into it

I would add a fifth scenario: Consider the possibility that either Gary or Sue may be suffering from a serious psychiatric condition. I'm serious. If Sue is being straight, then Gary honestly comes across as someone who is delusional/split personality/clinically depressive/etc. Is he a drug user? Is he on/off meds? Has he cracked from stress in his personal life? Or maybe Sue is delusional. There are crazies out there, and they can seem very normal until something sets them off..... (no offence intended to anyone reading who suffers from mental health issues)

Hi Stubby, the saws Im looking at are not Autotune or M-tronic. Im sure the intillicarbs are brill and all, but the idea just doesn't sit right with me. Im fascinated by the mechanical strato principle though, and would like to take advantage of it. I have formed the opinion after researching around this topic for several months, that the "World Chainsaw Community" just might be the most superstitious group of manly men on the planet, after sailors.... And I mean that in a kindly way - and readily admit my own tendency to prejudice...If I dont shake and roll the mix can just so, each and every time I fill the saw, well...something terrible...will happen...

He Joe, yes that's the plan. I already have an ex-hire 543 x-torq strimmer since feb, which has been fine so far, and a 131 4-mix pole saw which is also fine. The aspen is great, and I realise its deductable etc, but with the kind of quantities a large cc saw would get though; I don't know...Again, strimming all day, guzzles fuel, and can't charge much for strimming compared to tree work. I currently have a 254xp and a ms250, which are too close in power and weight to be worth having two saws (not counting the rescue and backup factor). Id be looking at a 75cc and a small and light pro saw for lighter work. Of course I'm penny wise and pound foolish like everyone else. Dropping a grand and a half on saws but too tight to use aspen...yes i know...But my reasoning is that If I used aspen in my current line up for the next five years, Id probably be half way to spending the cost of a new strato saw...and still be wielding last century's model, that would by that time be even more dated. Ive sunk €500+ in my 254xp in parts and labour these last few years. If the 250 starts playing up I will not bother paying for or trying to fix.

Hi TORNADOS7 thanks for your input. As far as I know the catalytic converter thing is not found on saws in the EU (open to correction), its not available here in Ire on Sthils and Husqs anyway, and I wouldn't want it if it were. Some of the Dolmars seem to have it though. I hear what you're saying about checking the plug - good idea. But don't they say you shouldn't run WOT no-load for more than 3 seconds at a time? I don't think I would feel comfortable flogging my brand new saw like that! Obviously I will remove any limiters if possible, and replace after tuning. I'd like to see a Parts Diagram for the 461 but can't find one - there is a french language site with a slew of Stihl parts diagrams but it doesn't include the 461!. -- Eddie_T - thanks for reply. I think I stumbled upon those patents but I think they were beyond me. I'm going to have another look... So If Red Max invented the x-torque design, and sold to Husq who sold to Sthil...is there any difference at all in the way they things are built? Have still refined and improved on the Red Max design? If Husqu chooses who makes the cylinders, are the Stihl and Husq cylinders from the same maker then??

As Oscar Wilde would have said (if he was alive today, and a member on Arbtalk) "I wish I'd posted that....."

Who makes the best stratified two stroke system? Decision to buy will be decided by whichever crowd makes the most reliable and efficient motor. I've searched high and low of info and found nothing this layman can comprehend. There are some unsupported statements around that Sthil's 2-Mix is really the X-Torq under licence, but I can'f find any proof of this. If it is so, would it matter? Scrutinizing the youtube vids of the various systems it looks like they are different, but I could be mistaken. I have been agonising over this for months, and will most probably agonise for some time more....I want to run all low-emissions gear, purely for my health and comfort, and can't afford to use aspen on a daily basis. Just flummoxed that there is so little info out there. In Ireland there is really only the Big Two available, with a smattering of the smaller Makitas. Also an add-on question: I gather that all these strato saws are set borderline lean form the factory. Is this true?? If so, will richening the carb for "longevity" defeat the effectiveness of the strato system? Yes I realise these questions are a tall order for folks like us, who don't have fully equipped laboratories and million dollar emissions testing machines in our sheds.......but maybe someone has a link to some independent hard facts? To those who suffered my "Black Hole" rant - please forgive me. It was a self indulgent, emotion-saturated version of the questions posted here. Thanks a mill for any feedback.

Aspen is about £18.00 a gallon no? = £3.60 per litre Super Unleaded British Average = £1.25 per litre Stihl HP Ultra £17 per litre (0.34 pence for each litre of petrol at 50:1) So mix aspen and petrol 50/50 and add the oil and you get a cocktail that costs £2.60 with half of the harmful emissions of straight petrol. Use that in a strato saw and you wipe out half the emissions again (they say up to 70% but lets be conservative) so you end up with a quarter of the emissions that you started out with running normal petrol in a last-generation saw. A lot of guys are saying they would move to aspen if only it were a bit cheaper. Well, this option is "affordable" and would bring the emissions way down. Is it a good compromise? I haven't tried it yet, will when/if I get my new saw. Maybe on the days I have to do a lot of bucking or cutting through stacks in close weather or heavy cover I'll use straight aspen, and maybe when the wind is up and I can position upwind or crosswind I'll go straight petrol. Another benefit of the cocktail is it reduces the ethanol levels by half, if you are worried about that kind of thing. Seems that saws can cope with a bit of ethanol, but not too much...?? I reckon aspen dealers would sell more product if guys were mixing it with their petrol. Virtual Prize for whoever comes up with the best name for the cocktail..........

...I don't wanna to get cancer from breathing benzene fumes...too young to die...benzene, toluene, monoxide...my saws are too old...outmoded technology...dirty...spewing out poison in the still air...gotta position upwind from now on...what if there's no wind?...can't just not show up on calm days can I?...no...need new saws...strato saws...go all Stihl this time so I can have the good bars and chains...one stop shop...no more Husq...no more oregon...twelve hours online researching...dream about saws...more research on phone in the early dawn...on the toilet...researching...so many saws...so many saws...price point...cry once...cry once...ah! the 661! perfect....youtube....the perfect saw...wait...no it's M-tronic, don't want that...more to go wrong...damn....ok then the 461...but it's not 90cc...hmmmm...still, how much power do you really need?...that kilo adds up over a day....heavy....be glad at the end of the day...good reviews...cry once...wrap handle?...hen's teeth...must have a wrap handle...do without for now...maybe next year....ok but what about a limbing saw...need one...old 250 and 254xp are ruining my health...could sell them and buy a nice little light little pro saw....mmmm...yes...but hard to sell...put them online...no...attract thieves to my home...probably...sell to a friend?...what if they hurt themselves?...oh bugger...not worth much anyway...could use aspen...yes of course, aspen...God, the price!!!!....but what price heath?...maybe mix it 50/50 with petrol...stand upwind...don't be silly...need a strato saw...the little one's nearly the same price as the big ones...how can it be?...are the small Makitas strato?...site doesn't say...catalytic converters...no thanks...small Husqs are strato...cheap too...plastic crap...seen em break...so many conflicting opinions, reports....Arbtalk...Arboristsite..Forestryforum..Treebuzz...it's night again...eyes red...hands shaking...all the flashy websites...so many numbers...what was that model?...why do the yanks pay less?...maybe fly to the states...duffle bag...dont be silly...benzene...benzene...the right saw must exist...it must...it just....has to.......

Power tools are like chainsaws, wine and cars. There are several variables that change from one decade to the next and from one year to the next. Brands go through cycles of quality. The quality differences between major brands are often so small they cannot realistically be quantified. Certain models from certain brands from certain years prove to be duds. It could be that some little component in that particular model was sources from the 'wrong' factory in the 'wrong' country during the 'wrong' year. Only hindsight can identify the dud and then it's too late. Likewise, the tools that become legendary are no longer available and the used ones are spun out.... I have read all the replies. How can it be that one guy finds (lets say) Makita batteries excellent and another finds them terrible??? Is it a case of a bad batch or bad tool management? Personally I have mostly Hitachi stuff simply because that is what is available locally and is considerably cheaper than the other brands. I have not yet been let down by them. I say buy the drill that feels best in the hand and make sure its a heavy duty model and with the highest amp hour batteries you can find. The higher the amp hour the less the drill will pull from each of the the cells and the less stressed the battery will be. Less heat generated and more efficient and more longevity. Consider going cordless sds. They can do everything a normal drill can do plus drill serious holes in stone and also be a mini-jackhammer. Heavy, mostly, but there are also lighter versions out there.

That chap probably cleared £100 that day begging.

Story: In the summer of '07 an English guy appeared in our wee village looking for an old girlfriend from many years ago, who was long gone. In his early sixties, been a long distance lorry driver most of his life. Low size chap, hips and knees shot from too many years of sitting at the wheel, heavy smoker, and hard boozer. Pleasant company and intelligent. So this guy, lets call him John, found a job hauling crushed stone for a local quarry. Only worked a week and the quarry closed. He was casually renting a room from someone he knew distantly through this long-gone girlfriend. When he ran out of dosh they put up with him for a couple of weeks then kicked him out. So a friend of mine sorts him out with a job in the local hotel sweeping up in the kitchen. I got a job that summer in the same hotel as a night porter. At 2.00am John and me were the only staff around, and I'd chat with him in the kitchen. The poor guy was sick. He had weeping sores on his arms (?) and could barely walk. Absolutely pitiful to see him pushing the mop around, with his buggered hips, tottering and wincing.... So John got sicker and sicker. I suspect he wasn't eating as well. And one afternoon he doesn't show up for his shift. Basically he just refused to get out of bed. So he squats in the staff house for a week, bed bound, and the management throw him out. So I find him sitting on his duffle-bag outside the pub and he tells me the story. Ok, so me being the good samaritan, I give him twenty bucks for supplies and tell him he can doss in the wee A-frame shack in our woods for a couple days till he gets his strength back. He comes back with (drumroll) baccy, a bottle of wine, and cupcakes!! I drive him up to the shack, sort him out with water, toilet paper and candles and he's wincing and grunting in pain as he shuffles over the forest floor, roots that we wouldn't even notice being physical obstacles to him... He can't mount the steps into the shack and I have to help him. At this point I'm thinking "Jeezuz, what have I done??" "Are you going to be ok John?" "Yeah mate, I'll be fine in a few days, thanks ever so much, I'll just get on with writing me memoirs now..." So I check on him in a few days and he's still there. Wine and baccy gone, and two or three out of the dozen cupcakes eaten...It's obvious that left to his own devices he will die in the shack, so I make a few calls and for fifty bucks a friend (bless her) will put him up for a week in the nearby town, where there is a social welfare office and maybe they can hep him. I haul him out of the shack, drive him to town and shove more cash into his hand. So he stays with her for a week and she phones me: "Haironyourchest, you have to come and get John. He's a lovely guy but he's doing me head in. The dole office wont help him and he does nothing but lie on the floor all day and drink..." So into the car again. I drive him to the next biggest town and dump him outside the social welfare office there, give him four hundred quid and tell him to ask the dole people to help him go back to England. He promises to repay me some day (!) So a couple months later I get a text message. He's living in a homeless shelter and loving it. "Three meals a day, a safe-ish place to sleep, medical treatment and €50 a week pocket money!!!" Eventually he makes his was home and gets work driving a lorry for a tarmacking firm and that's the last I ever hear from him... Of course, I never see my money again....but whatever.

Wow....I thought this was gonna be a thread about delicious mushrooms....

Someone should start a thread: "Photos Of Your Fry-ups" !!

Tea, Coffee, and Milled Linseed with Juice for breakfast. Linseed sorts out any potential reflux for the day. Maybe biscuits with the tea. I find it doesn't matter what I eat for lunch provided I give it a minimum of half an hour to go down. Generally its whatever's leftover from last nights supper in a locking camping pot, supplemented with field rations of tinned fish, organic baked beans (cold from the can) tinned chickpeas, salt and pepper, And at least two litters of water, four on a hot day, with packets of electrolyte salts. And a liter of goats milk on the drive home.... No tea, except of very cold days maybe.

....... ....Hita.......never mind........... .....Sigh......

Read the whole thing. Interesting though and glad I did...

The Billion Dollar Pee..... well that was a shaggy dog story if I ever heard one!

"To the seeing eye, decay is as beautiful as growth, and death as birth" - William Blake

Mike, there's a guy near here who's been milling since forever.... His technique is to have the chain so loose it nearly hangs off the underneath of the bar. I know what you're saying about the chain catching the mill, the centrifugal forces forces it away from the bar. The looser it is the more it travels and trashes the teeth on the mill. Our mill has a nearly sawed-through 8mm bolt in evidence of this. Thus the overtightened chain. I have in mind to modify our mill so it doesn't do this anymore. Maybe your mill could be modified? Also have you considered an auxiliary oiler on the return after the bar nose? Also (am I teaching granny to suck eggs?) wedge the planks behind you as you go.

I vote take him to court. Even if you lose the case or he turns out to be bankrupt or whatever, you stood up for yourself (well that's how Id feel about it anyway) Its the principle of the thing. I spent for too long treading on eggshells around people out of a sense of 'benefit of the doubt' that in retrospect turned out to be just pathologically self serving... ... Haul him over to coals and maybe next time he'll think twice about contracting for work he has no intention of paying for.