Chris at eden

Great thread. I think the biggest problem is that planning departments don't really enforce conditions. I write a monitoring schedule into every AMS that I do but I never get instructed to do them one it all kicks off. I've never seen it raised by the LPA either. Its a shame. 5837 would actually work if people followed it. Jules, good point about the expert witness and I think you can apply that to reports also. They all have the potential to be to end up in court. The consultants primary responsibility is to the system. I read an article a while ago where the expert witness was thrown out of the court as the judge deemed him not to be an expert! How embarrassing!

You cant do an impact assessment before the layout. The AIA is the impact of the trees on development and vice versa, you need to know what is being build for that. The tree survey yes though, should be independent of layout. The sequence is generally or should be: 1. Tree survey and constraints assessment. Pre-app, guidance for design team. 2. AIA and draft TPP. To go in with planning app. 3. AMS and final TPP. To be conditioned usually. In my opinion the AIA is mainly prepared for the TO and LPA as they will be making the decision. Of course it should be written so the laymen can understand it as should all reports, so supported by descriptive text where required. The AMS is not just for contractors, it gives the LPA something they can condition which makes enforcement possible. I'm not saying it shouldn't have an intro to explain what it is, clearly it should but it should be much more than that. I saw one yesterday from a well respected consultant that was about 20 pages. The only thing that was specific was a survey schedule and an impact assessment which was two paragraphs. The rest of it you could apply to any site in the country. I don't think that is good enough.

Spot on. I've seen reports when working in a planning office that are 20 pages long. The first 15 generic padding explaining what the BS is, (the TO will already now this so don't go over the op, it will annoy the LPA). A brief description in the scope should be enough in my view. The next 2 are site specific (which is a joke), then the appendices also generic apart from the tree survey. I've seen impact assessments that are half a page long or even not present. Not a good approach. The report should take a few hours to write. I've heard consultants say they can write one in an hour. Not if you are doing it properly. Do a good job and you will get repeat work. And be honest. If there is an impact say so. Don't say there isn't just because that is what the client wants. You will be asked to do this from time to time. It not as if the TO wont notice so just explain that.

Hi Alan, I would second what Jules and Paul are saying and no I just wouldn't take a punt. 5837 is probably the most demanding report you will write, the only other one on that level would be for subsidence in my opinion. Tree life run a one day course on 5837 which may be useful. As a brief overview the: 1. Tree survey is pretty straight forward apart from the retention category bit. 2. The AIA is, the impact of the development on trees and vice versa. For example. The impact of tree losses, the impact of tree pruning, the impact of hard surfaces, the effect the trees will have on the finished site through shading, seasonal nuisance, the potential for direct damage, etc. 3. The AMS. Should be written as a specification. i.e. this is what we will be doing, not we recommend this. For example. Tree protection barriers shall be installed in positions as identified on the TPP and in accordance with the specification in appendix 3. Not, it is recommended that barriers are ..... Wholly specifications can be a problem for council legal departments so tree officers may object. You don't always need an AMS, only if the AIA demonstrates that you do. For this reason the AIA should conclude with issues to be addressed by the AMS and a draft TPP. That said some councils will still ask. They all seem to treat it differently in my experience. How many trees are there on the site? It would be worth getting into if you can. 5837 probably forms about 80% of my work.

Get the boat from dover. Its a great experience seeing the cliffs disappear from the back of the ship especially at sunset. Toll roads are great, no traffic. Alsace is a great part of the world, not by the sea but the weather seems to be better in my experience. Provence is nice but a trek with a Van. If you don't want to go too far Brittany is nice. About 6 hours from Calais to St Malo, roads not great. France is the most under rated place I have been to, great food and lots of history if that's your thing. Enjoy!

Word from 2010 has a save to PDF as standard, cant remember for the older versions. I use office 365 which is an annual subscription and much better functionality than older versions. As for PDF I use Foxit as my editor rather than Adobe. Its about £70 rather than £300+. I use it loads to import image files into CAD (if I cant get the CAD file) so worth it for me but not for every one.

No mate. If the tree is dead but not imminently dangerous then a five day notice is required. If it is imminently dangerous then it can be felled first with the notice submitted later. Either way no app required. To be clear the term dangerous has gone and has now been replaced with 'an immediate risk of serious harm'. Just before someone picks me up on that.

I had one on demo about 10 years ago when I was working as tree officer in Dudley. We got a Picus in the end as that is what we were mainly look at. You can scan the trunks with tree radar but its not great. Another problem is you cannot interpret the data yourself unless this has changed recently. You record it and send it away for analysis or at least you used to. I can definitely see it having practical applications but probably not enough for everyone to have it. You could say that about Picus and micro drills also though. Clever bit of kit.

Its a joke. Just quote what you believe you are worth and let the idiots get on with it. Some muppet advertises tree reports on google every now and again for £79!!! Just devalues the industry.

CAVAT incorporates a value known as the CTI (community tree index) factor which is based on population per hectare. If more people can see it then its visual amenity value must be higher. For this reason trees in highly populated areas such as London are given higher value. Its also the adopted system of the MTOA and was developed by the LTOA or more precisely Chris Neilan (a London tree officer). I believe they use it in conjunction with the joint mitigation protocol. See link below: CAVAT

Good point Jules. That's why I would use CAVAT.

Spot on. I agree 100%. Additionally in response to some of the questions. The old myth of only pruning in the winter was based on the Askanarzy curve, not sure on the spelling but the research was flawed in any case. It was based on testing starch levels immediately after bud break but they only tested winter flowering cherries from what I remember. These would obviously be depleted as they have put out flowers before they have any photosynthetic capacity so just on potential energy. Then to put out leaves is a bit much so pruning straight after is probably not a good idea. If you pruning in summer the tree is actively growing so is able to form reaction zones to prevent colonisation by decay organisms. Additionally most decay fungi sporilate in the autumn so spores are at an all time low. The wound response of deciduous trees in the winter is pretty much zero and fungal spores are at a high. I don't see the issue with bleeding either. its not like an animal bleeding where if it runs low it will die. Also if its pumping out water it means nothing can get in and cherries and some conifers produce gums and resins during the summer as a defensive compound. I would say in most instances that summer pruning is best but then again I've never met a tree surgeon that has the winter off and most local authorities prune planes during the winter due to the irritant hairs. Realistically do many of these trees pruned in winter die? I wouldn't say so, not if done properly. The paper in mentioned is called straightening out the askanarzy curve if you are interested in the research.

I agree Jules, this seems odd. L2 is not a consultancy level qualification anyway. NTSG makes reference to L3 being minimum for those doing detailed assessment and PTI also has a pre-requisite of L3. I would personally think this is minimum. I thought TRAQ was a tree inspection qualification similar to PTI while QTRA is about using a quantified system which has been tested in a court setting. Why is there not room for both? I haven't done either so I may be way off!

Did it actually say 'spp'? That makes no sense at all. spp means more than one species so you couldn't apply it a single tree!!! That's before you even get into the misidentification.

10 points for observation. Never noticed that.

The habit for me is the give away plus the denseness of the canopy. Cant see from the pics but the trunk will be a very dark colour also.

Looks like Bird Cherry - Prunus padus

I agree. Roots in the lawn would support that also.

I think it was Nev Fay who wrote a paper a few years ago and suggested that for trees to be veteran they should have at least 4 vet features. e.g. cavity, deadwood, water pools/pockets, and bracket fungi, etc. I tend to stick with that. I personally think that the actual girth more relates to the age and I would use this for designating a tree as ancient. There is a big oak tree not far from where I live with a large stem diameter but no vet features. Bit of deadwood, that's about it. I did the special trees unit as one of my options for my L6 and this is the approach I took. Dave Dowson seemed ok with it so I stuck to it. I thought I would love the unit but the whole subject is so wholly I found it a bit of an anti-climax.

BS8545 recommends not using fertilizer in the first season but if signs of nutrient deficiency become apparent then you should investigate and treat the cause. The sugar thing seems all the rage at the moment so yeah not a bad idea. Not sure how viable it is on the large scale. e.g. street tree planting. Mulching is a must though in my opinion.

Hi Jim, Hope you are well. All done with the survey. Looks interesting. Good luck with the IRP. Cheers, Chris. (former L6 Westonbirt)

I agree with the quick chat bit as pre-app discussions are always a good idea as is building a relationship with the TO. But a phone call does not meet the regs so I would stay away from this approach as you could come under criticism. Remember the register is available for public inspection so if someone complains the council will investigate. The first person to be criticised would be the TO followed by the one not submitting the notice properly. Saving time, paperwork and hassle is certainly not what planning regulations are about but its not a bad idea anyway. If you want to do this then why not (after you have spoken with the TO) ping him/her an e-mail stating what you will do as discussed on the phone. If you do it straight away they will be at their desk and can put it on the register and answer by return e-mail. Job done and you would be better covered.

Why? Unless the branch is dead or the statutory undertaker is doing the works it needs a notice as far as I can see.

I agree. That would count as a 211 notice, not need to use the one app.