Chris at eden

Subs course is good also. Again its a quick skim over. You cant learn this stuff in a day but you have to start somewhere. Cheers

The AA do a course on categorising trees for 5837 surveys but nothing on the site at the moment. I think they ran one a couple of weeks ago. The Treelife course will cover all aspects, tree survey, tree constraints, AIA, TPP, and AMS. I did it about 10 years ago. Remember though it's a one day course so it will be skimmed over pretty quickly. I covered it again a couple of years ago as part of the L6 in which it is covered in much more detail. Cheers

Pretty well covered I would say although I got the impression that the tree was TPO'd not within a CA and so an application required, not a notice. Doesn't sound like an exemption to me although the info is limited.

Although the TPO does not transfer liability it could in that situation due to the LPA refusing consent. Slightly different but there was a case a few years back where a resident submitted an application to fell a tree due to subsidence. The LPA refused the application due to a lack of supporting evidence. From what I remember they had skipped some of the investigation and just got root ID and level monitoring, maybe soils, not sure now. Anyway instead of appealing the decision the tree owner put a claim in for the damage. The council had to fund all repairs as the court felt that the upward movement on the level monitoring was enough to implicate the tree on the balance of probabilities. Probably fair, what else is likely to make buildings move up. The LA tried to rely on the fact that the applicant could appeal to the PINS but the judge was having none of it. Cheers

Hi Paul Not disagreeing with you but I used to work as TO at Dudley a few years ago and we did this on several occasions. Tree that was an imminent danger felled by the council's in house team. Funds recovered in one of two ways. 1. The tree owner paid back in instalments. 2. If option 1 not possible due to lack of funds then a charge was placed against the property to be settled on sale of said property. We did this on several occasions all through legal. No problems. Funny how solicitors opinions differ. I believe the TPO case in Poole a couple of years ago took the same approach. The offender could not settle the full fine (circa. £150k) and so a charge was placed on the property to be settled upon sale. Another LA I worked for as TO wouldn't even look at private trees. Their view is they are private and so not our responsibility. The powers are discretionary and we do not wish to or have the resources to take on liability by looking and serving notices. Cheers

The powers that the council have to serve either a highways or LGMP notice are discretionary and in my experience (working as a tree officer) they will try to avoid it. The duty of care sits with the tree owner but once the council start serving notices they cannot simply ignore it if the owner doesn't respond. Guidance I always had from LG solicitors was that there would then be a potential for liability or at least criticism. That's not to say that the tree owner is off the hook though.

Hi Ed I realise all that and I kind of agree. I was quite surprised when Richard was talking about modifying the areas before confirmation. As I said, I don't know why you would just not make a new one and allow the other to expire. Just that it may be possible. The unreasonable bit. The way I interpreted the OP was that the trees didn't merit protection, full stop. i.e. not good examples and no future potential, maybe they had no visibility. Not sure what the reasons were. My point was that I don't think the LPA should be protecting low quality trees simply so they can force the land owner to plant something better. I personally think that is asking for trouble. Cheers

Q2 - that's not what Richard Nicholson is selling in his TPO course run through CAS. He actually states that you should not confirm as an area but should modify to groups and individuals before confirmation and confirm the new plan and schedule. Goes as far as to say extend the areas across the boundaries so as boundary trees can be included without the risk of being accused of including new trees and therefore avoid the need to consult again. I do agree though that you would be better just making a new order and re-serving, and allowing the old to expire.

Its probably slightly unreasonable to put a replacement condition on trees that did not merit protection in the first place. There is a government circular which stats what planning conditions must be. e.g. Fair, reasonable, etc. TPO's are only supposed to be served if the removal of the trees would have a significant impact on the local environment. Sounds like these did not meet the criteria. I would appeal the TRN. First thing the PINS will ask for is the TPO and evidence that it has been confirmed. That's not going to happen by the sound of it. Even if they had confirmed the order I would still appeal as the way in which the legislation has been administered is not appropriate. You cant TPO rubbish trees just so that you can get land owners to plant better ones.

Me too. I ignored them for a couple of months and they went away. Tell you what I do get which really winds me up. I get these so called SEO experts emailing me most days saying my website is not optimised, has a lot of mistakes, and doesn't rank on Google! Tell me this, if I don't rank on Google, then how do they get my details? Idiots! Sorry, seemed to have derailed the thread.

Its easy. You create your campaign and choose your keywords. You then set a maximum daily budget, and a maximum fee per click for your keywords. You will never be charged more than your budgets although the daily budget is averaged over the month. You shouldn't be paying £12 per click though.

Hi Ti It's difficult to make TPO's proactively in that way as unless the trees are under threat it would not be considered to be expedient to make a TPO. So no they don't have to survey and make TPO's proactively or more to the point, they can't. Its not all the LPA's fault to be fair. A lot of tree surgeons will phone the LPA on the morning they are going to do the work to check as that way the LPA do not have time to make the orders. Remember they are duty bound to protect trees under threat if there removal would have a significant impact on the local environment. By phoning the LPA when they are up the tree the contractors deny them of the opportunity to do this. I don't personally think it is too much to ask that the LPA get a couple of days notice before works are carried out. Its the only way the system will work. Whether or not you or I agree with it, that is the way it is intended to work. That said they should be asking you to submit an application for trees that are not protected. Cheers

I also agree with what it looks like. I left an old Merip frond in the boot of my car over the weekend a couple of years ago and one thing I can say for sure is, it didn't smell sweet by Monday!!! I can see why you posted it mate. One for Tony or David this one.

I'll third it. Also wrote the L2, L4 and L6 certs and diplomas which is worth a mention. Never noticed the watch and shoes thing but I'll take your word for it. Top trainer as his his mate Andy.

The thing about monetary gain comes I assume from the court precedent, not the dictionary. Didn't ask. If Dave Dowson says that is how it is, that's good enough for me.

You are right. My advice is go with treelife. They are a really good training provider. I've done loads with them. PTI, tech cert, L6, bats, mortgage reports, etc. Always go back as never disappointed with what I get out of the training. Cant say that for everything I go on.

Yes. Both Myerscough and Capel Manor do L2 online. Realistically you will need L4 to start doing tree reports though. You may get away with L2 for basic risk surveys (at a push) but once you start looking at mortgage reports and BS5837 you will need at least L4, L6 preferably for the latter as it is covered better at that level. Just my experience, others may disagree. For info, about 60% of my work is 5837 and about 30% is mortgage reports and damage assessment. The remaining 10% is risk so I wouldn't want to rely on them. That may be that I don't really focus on risk surveys with my marketing as I don't like doing them. Find them a bit boring.

Whether it is considered as conversion or theft is dependent on what you do with it. It you sell or make a monetary gain from your neighbour's apples which happen to fall into your garden that would be theft. If you make an apple pie and eat it that would be conversion. That is how Dave Dowson explained it when I was doing my L6. The owner of a tree can arrange access to collect his apples at a mutually acceptable time. Bit bonkers really as if the neighbour says no you would have to go through the courts by which time the apples would be looing pretty naf.

ISA cert arb would be fine. I did that before I did tech cert which is the old version of the L4. I had done national certificate as well but that pretty much covers the same stuff as ISA. Have you spoke with treelife they are doing L2 now. You will need a certain amount of under pinning knowledge to do L4 so you are going about it the right way. Good luck

I'd go with dominance and lack of usable outdoor amenity space as your reasons. Liveability conditions is a valid reason for working on protected trees. If you go with structural damage you would need technical data to support the application (if they TPO) and being in Glasgow the risk would probably be low compared with somewhere such as London. Please don't take this as professional advice as I haven't looked at the site in detail, its just a general view of what may be possible or likely. I think your local tree consultant will be Jules who posts on here so he may be able to offer better or more site specific advice. Cheers,

Make the journey mate, its well worth it and only a few days over the year. I did my L6 with Treelife at Westonbirt, one of the lads travelled in from the Isle of White, got the first ferry. Treelife have a very good pass rate at L6, about 35% the year I completed I think. That sounds low but check with the other providers what there pass rate is. It wasn't anywhere near that last time I heard. I personally think the Treemail route would be tough without the regular sessions. It tough on motivation anyway. If it was a choice of treemail in March or day release in Sept/Oct I would wait. You will probably get done quicker anyway. Just my opinion based on L6. I would think the L4 workload would be less but I am told its still pretty heavy duty. Hope this helps Good luck

I drive through the Black Country on a weekly basis on the way to the M6 for work. There is a huge piece of land near Bilston which was part of this Black Country Urban Forest which has just be cleared and is now being regarded fir housing. Bit of a waste on one hand but to be fair, even though it was planted with small trees (mostly willow) it still didn't look nice. Interesting post, I didn't realise the greening project went back that far.

Great response Ed and spot on. I agree I would base the appeal on dominance and how that affects liveability, usable outdoor amenity space etc. The only thing I would add to answer the original question is that the fact that the tree was there first makes no difference. That is an issue that should have been considered when planning consent was given. Also agree, the LPA should not be changing the spec. Cheers,