scotspine1

lot of work involved in that tree, you guys did a great job, nice one.

They just don't get it do they? Why are these people continuing with such a hopeless endeavour? Anyone here ever heard of marketing myopia? it's when a person or a group of people have deluded themselves into believing their product is amazing and everyone should use it, when in reality it's rubbish. Listen up R2 whoever you really are, YOU'RE NOT GETTING ANY OF MY MONEY FOR YOUR POINTLESS SCHEME and if anyone else involved in treework has any sense they'll give this quango a very wide berth

The Register of Tree Work Operatives (R2) is yet another attempt to grab money off hard working people. It's a pathetic scheme. I genuinely hope it fails miserably and the companies supporting it lose any money they've given to R2.

Craobh, most people who use this forum dont have a problem with training in general, they just feel that we've reached a point where the amount of courses required is not only excessive but financially difficult to maintain, especially in the current economic climate. 'refresher courses for experienced users' being the final insult to injury Whoever came up with this 'refresher training for experienced users', if you're out there I have just one question for you JUST HOW MUCH MORE STUPID CAN YOU BE? .

you'll be right up for providing these refresher courses yes? of course you will

When the British Empire shrunk after WW2 1000s of ex pat British bureaucrats who'd spent their lives administrating and ordering the natives about in far off lands like India and Africa had to come back home. They then set about inventing jobs for themselves and regulations to inflict on the native peoples of Britain. Over the decades this spread like a virus through all parts of national and local government creeping into society to this very day where you now see the legacy manifest itself in the most pitiful, petty and obstructive ways. You see.....these people, the state, the regulatory bodies and training providers make up more and more rules to justify their own existence and charge you top dollar for taking their courses and achieving their 'certificates'. Take the 'refresher' training for 'experienced chainsaw users' the HSE advocate - it's a perfect example of training providers lobbying the HSE to endorse this type of pointless 'update' training in order for the training providers to fleece money out of perfectly safe and highly experienced treeworkers who don't need 'retrained'. THIS IS A MONEY MAKING SCAM. It's basically a protection racket on a huge scale, you pay the training providers or you don't get the contracts. It's not really about raising the awareness of safety in the industry (although they'll always tell you it is), it's about raising the bank balance of the training providers, colleges and the HSE and keeping them in jobs. Don't get me wrong I strongly believe that there should be an emphasis on safety in all places of work. Most reasonably sensible people are born with a certain instinct for safety, it's is a state of mind your either born with or your not, if your not then you'll be found out very quickly in the tree business regardless of how many NPTC units you have. Take LOLER for instance in relation to treeclimbing equipment - if you can't recognise faults or dangers in your own climbing equipment without the need for a so called industry expert to identify them for you, you should seriously consider getting out of the industry, you hang your life off this stuff for Christ's sake.

Does this mean Redwood will be phasing out dealing Jensens?

That guy I was talking about was in the US, most climbers in Scotland will be climbing off one line (with flipline or secondary lanyard etc) same as the rest of the UK. The idea of doing all your work off 2 lines at all times is a pretty stupid idea on the whole. The second line means constant disconnecting and reconnecting to stop the lines becoming intertwined as you try to move about the crown/branchwalk etc. Very distracting to the job at hand and pointless as an attempt to be 'safer' in the tree. Not really sure why Dundee council would do insist on double climbing lines, probably imposed by someone who's never climbed a tree in their life. .

I used to work with a guy who used 2 climbing lines and flipline on just about every job, tied in twice all the time, thing was, he 'd started out climbing like that because he once saw a guy using two lines in a tree and thought it was normal and self taught himself twin line treeclimbing. For him to go to one line would've been unthinkable after climbing for years on 2 before seeing how the majority of other climbers worked. He was only slightly slower than the other guys on the crew and did a great job of every tree.

Fair enough, thanks for the reply Paul Any chance of a free place at the Perth seminar? .......................just kidding Wont manage this time, but hope it all goes well. Book looks good.

why aren't these seminars free? doesn't the AA have a duty to hold these kind of seminars for free? particularly when you consider the importance of the issues being discussed.

Tracey at Linwood might take chip, they sent a letter out last year to tree surgeons looking for woodchip, the civic refuse site in Linwood wont, they only take their own green waste. Kelvin Recycling in Kirkintilloch will take any size of load, logs, brash, chip whatever and they only charge £15, it's a place definitely worth knowing about if you're working on the north side of the city.

I'm right mate, trust me, hang around the UK long enough and you'll see I'm right. This is a country run by bureaucrats who have become completely detached from the reality of everyday life for decent hard working people.

That's fine. But that's not refresher training that's real on the job experience. let's say a training provider assumes they can update your skills, how do they know this? how do they know what skill level you're at? how do they know what experience you have? they dont, but they'll happily take your money and have a go at trying to 'update' your skills they know nothing about. The whole idea of refresher training for experienced users is based on a negative assumption. A training provider by their very nature has either ceased doing the job or doesn't do the job as much as they used to, everyday they spend running courses takes them away from the sharp end of treework. In the meantime you are moving on, gaining more and more experience and skill. In this situation, how will their knowledge advance beyond your's if all they do is run courses and assessments? it wont, they'll become stagnant, but they'll never admit this because the whole training industry is filled with mutual backslapping and work creation. If you can satisfactorily carry out your work to a very high standard and you're safe in the knowledge that what you're doing is working for you, this negates the whole principle of refresher training. Right now seriously experienced people are paying training providers to apparently 'update' their skills. It's nonsense. A message to training providers and tree industry bureaucrats - Refresher training for experienced users is pointless

I know everything I need to know to get the work done safely and efficiently and so do thousands of other experienced pro tree workers who are out there in the real world grafting for their wages every day of the week. With that in mind, what makes the training providers assume they can charge us for providing a 'refresher' course? they're assuming wrongly that we need to be refreshed in how to use a saw. It's not only insulting to professionals but implies that the industry is full of idiots who forget what they learn from one day to the next. The idea of a refresher course for experienced users is an amateur idea aimed at professionals. Knowledge and skill in chainsaw use is cumulative and it can only be gained through experience, the more you use a saw the better you get with one. It's been said that to be an expert musician you need to do 10,000 hours of playing and practicing, there are many chainsaw users who've done well over 10,000 hours of cutting. What is a training provider going to teach a person with over 10,000 hours of chainsaw use? Refresher training for experienced users a money making scam. The training providers will be only too happy to take your money to tell you things you already know. This is why I wont ever be doing a refresher course in chainsaw use of any kind and I'd encourage other experienced treeworkers to avoid these courses as well unless you want to give your hard earned money to people who dont deserve it. Keep this money for yourself or your family. .

refresher training for experienced users is a money making exercise for training providers If I went on refresher training course it'd be me telling the so called, 'experts' how to use a chainsaw not the other way round. No one is going to tell me how to use a chainsaw, especially not a training provider. I've been using chainsaws everyday of the week since 1996, there is nothing any training provider can tell me about using a saw. It's time the industry put this 'refresher training for experienced users' trash in the bin, it's a complete joke, an insult to your intelligence and a drain on your hard earned cash. While we're all out doing real work, the training providers are sitting having meetings on how to get more money out of us. If there is anyone out there who can explain why I need a refresher course in chainsaw use I would like to hear from you, genuinely, go on, explain to me why I should do a refresher training course. It better be good. .

cheers folks just me on the ground lifting and holding the branches then lowering hand over hand, everything else Buckingham Port a wrap

short vid (1.30), not a big tree but phonelines under the crown made it time consuming with most branches needing rigged small I was running the ropes for a mate who was doing the climbing (was his job). Nice to get some decent weather, the footage here is last few branches being lowered. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKz910j7bik&feature=youtube]Scots Pine - YouTube[/ame]

great pics Reg, excellent work what brand is that 3/4 flipline? is it the big one Yale do?

Anyone here do this? Roseneath Caravan Park, near Helensburgh, Scotland. tree was Cedar of Lebanon, carving looks to be about 10 years old? nice job whoever it was .

Water Margin was for weirdos, too japanese. At least Monkey made a half decent attempt to cater for western audiences. Mark I have it on good authority this was your fav show of the 80s, the poor man's lassie - word on the street is you could regularly be seen singing this tune all the way to and from skool [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT9mS074hns]The Littlest Hobo (Opening Credits).mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

There's a special place at the back of mind reserved for the memory of Monkey Magic. As I child in the 80s I sat transfixed to the opening credits wondering what the hell it was all about? why was it that the monkey that came out of the stone egg looked nothing like Monkey himself? guess this will remain one of the great unanswered questions from the 80s. Check it out, the full opening credits and, 'MONKEY!' @ .58, awesome tune [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88y4ttqaW6U]Monkey Opening Theme - YouTube[/ame]

Petzl have always been on the fringes of the arb industry looking in. They dont understand treework, and they certainly dont fully comprehend DbRT treeclimbing, that's now a proven fact.

can see you now in front of Petzl HQ - something like this [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTdO-w3xnpw]From my Cold Dead Hands! - YouTube[/ame]

either that or your rigor mortis grip