scotspine1

Hi Paul, thanks for running the workshop up here, glad I made the trip over to Edinburgh, good venue, easy to find. Picked up loads of good info and ideas for running the business better and was pleased to see the importance that's put on the work site visit during the day the company is assessed. The only thing I was concerned about was that to attain the AAAC status you dont need any treework qualifications as in RFS Cert Arb, ISA Cert Arb etc. Proof of knowledge in areas like tree biology, pest and disease, trees and the law etc. I do understand that you'd be expecting to see and hear evidence of a tree surgeon's/arborist's arb knowledge on the day of the assessment. But I'd expect potential clients to assume an AAAC company would have at least RFS Cert or equivalent? Cheers Tim .

Hows this for the Arbtalk logo?

I'm talking about a situation where if the prussik slips it will drag the tibloc down as it pushes the micro pulley down and as I've said it's a tool designed for emergency use only in rescue situations on kernmantle rope, that's Petzl's words, not mine. cheers Adam, beat me to it.

If the the climber slips from a branch with slack in his line the prussik will drag the tibloc down the opposite side potentially ripping the rope. The tibloc is designed for emergency rescue on kernmantle ropes, not arborist climbing ropes. The system in the video is really very poor from a safety point of view and was cobbled together without any real consideration as to the suitablility of the application. To get back to the original point of the thread, a micro-pulley or hitchclimber is the way to go.

elwapo, if this is a frequent occurence could I suggest that you may have made the wrong choice of occupation. Personal safety is critical, not just for your own sake, but for everyone else in the near vicinity. The sharper a Silky is the safer it is for obvious reasons.

The Petzl Tibloc was designed to be used in emergency situations, more specifically rock climbing, caving and rope rescue. To use it for advancing a hitch as part of a treeclimbing system would be a mistake that could cost you your life. If you can't see the obvious flaw in that system then you should really try to keep your system as simple as possible, possibly even forget about the hitchclimber as well.

Can you post a pic of what your planning to use and how you plan to use it?

does that make you social climber then?

Re Cambium savers, I'd just add that for beginners I'd also agree that learning to set one properly and using it is very important, but the original type design to begin before moving on to ropeguide etc. Also retreival from ground with throwline is an important skill to learn (not always needed depending on tree). I've worked for companies who would not let you carry out pruning work in the tree without the use of a cambium saver, it was company policy and there was no debate. pic wrong way round for right handers eh?

in your pic it looks like the bollard is set higher than centre like the GRSC and Hobbs? the basic idea of your device is good, all I'm getting at is it could be better. I've added a pic below yours of a design that sits the bollard in the centre of the baseplate which is a backwards step from the GRCS/Hobbs design especially when you look at the mounting attachment points for a single strap. The last pic (Acemaster) is an example of why the inverted T shape baseplate is important and helps to firmly stabilise the lowering device to the tree despite sideways tension. These little design features do make a difference.

The top strap has no purpose. Also if you look at where the strap is connected to the GRCS and Hobbs you can see they've created a design that is far more stable than yours and also helps dissipate the load through the lowering device into the tree as I said before. Good design engineering is critical when your dealing with the potentially huge forces being created when rigging. Why dont you just create a new baseplate similar to the GRCS and Hobbs? those 2 devices are the best you can get, if your gonna make homemade versions of recognised designs then why not do it properly? Unless you think your designs are an improvement on the GRCS and Hobbs? .

You dont need 2 straps, that's the whole point of the GRCS and Hobbs design with the bollard positioned above the single strap.

avatar tree climber, the fundamental design of your device is not good. The bollard/winch on the GRCS and Hobbs - look at where they're positioned in relation to the base plate and strap. There's a very good engineering reason for this. When they are loaded the bollard is forced into the tree. When you load yours the force wants to go up the tree because you've positioned the bollard in the middle of the plate. People nearly always leave this critical design feature out when making homemade devices.

silky, jar of Nescafe Expresso, available from any good supermarket, £4.00, makes loads of cups of coffee also means you get to keep £96 for a nice new Sugoi and folding Accel which (let's face it) help make you money which means you can lend your son a quid or two now and then when he's short. =

lol your body language at 2.32 says otherwise - [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35JkG9P5deA]big ash leaner - YouTube[/ame]

Rab, this is probably the best example of that you'll see on youtube, although I think S. Bullman has one up somewhere also. Quality felling. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H55V6VFx-k0]Tall Spruce Felled with Hung-Up Fir - YouTube[/ame]

tuttle, I mentioned how it's done in my first post in this thread.

Dan, you need to get out more, try engaging with real people in the real world instead of being holed up in you basement creating half-baked instructional videos.

Is that what happens at 1.03? you'd think after 30 years in the game you'd have the foresight to avoid this scenario, there's a definate lack of control there, like you failed to anticipate what's happening until it's too late [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35JkG9P5deA]big ash leaner - YouTube[/ame]

[ame= ] [/ame]

far safer ways of getting that tree down ie - rolling the hung up tree out using parbuckling type rope wraps, some small break cuts at the base of the tree, a well placed re-direct and a big winch or using heavy machinery to pull the tree out at the base directly away from the other propping tree (not a skid loader unless it's a small tree). 'a nice cut for hung trees' - it isn't even a 'cut' as such, it's more like the treework equivalent of russian roulette where a guy takes a stab in the dark as to how the tension and compression is laid down in the tree all the while standing almost directly underneath the entire weight of the stem. if you value your legs and feet avoid this technique like the plague. Check out the action at 2.30, he didn't have a clue when that stem was gonna go. Most hung up tree (especially large open grown decidous trees) situations are very unpredictable which is why your default setting when tackling them should be to try and keep yourself out of the danger zone not actively step into it. Well it's done now isn't it......and as we know Dan has done this 100s of times before, but if your gonna use this method why not trigger the explosive release with a winch or some kind of pull line keeping you well out the way of danger, or if you were that desperate to use a saw then use a long pole chainsaw to trigger the final release. Also, the second cut could've been notched at the top to allow for a slower more controlled break . Another point to consider is the danger can be species specific, Ash is notorious for barber chairing. .

Adam, I'm not gonna waste time arguing about this. Peter has problems pulling himself up the tree, if that's the case he'll have a problem holding his weight with one hand as he advances the hitch. He needs to either lose weight or get strong. David, A few cosmetic plucks? never seen a working climber's rope before? it's miles off failing a Loler examination, I know this cause I'm a LOLER assessor so dont insult my intelligence by telling me it would fail. Also if any other Loler assessors want to say it would fail, your risking your professional credibility on a public forum based on a photograph. Here's some advice for new climbers, be wary of where you get your advice from, the tree industry is full of self proclaimed experts.

Adam, the guy has problems with his arms, he uses a Blakes (probably 13mm on 13mm) you suggested he add a micro pulley in there below the blakes and run his climbing rope through a pulley. Think about it, he's gonna be pulling down on that rope with his dodgy arms, ok, thats fine and yes it'll feel easier than having the rope running over a branch but think about what's gonna happen when he stops and has to hold the rope one handed while he tries desperately to advance the blakes (13mm on 13mm) with the micro pulley, that blakes will no doubt be holding pretty tight and is gonna need some serious work getting it fed up the line all the while the guy's arm that's holding him 6ft above where he initially left off is about to explode cause there's no friction over a branch to help him. Peter/Grasshopper, I suggest daily chin ups/press ups/dips as the solution, no matter how you climb or what system you use, you need strong arms in this game.

My point was that by incorporating a ropeguide or cambium saver into the guy's system it will not always make it easier on his arms, yes for pulling down but it's harder to hold your weight static (one handed) as you take up the slack with the other hand if there is no friction (over the branch) there to help you. No, because there is still a friction hitch or device (lockjack, zigzag etc) in the DdRT system. With a pulley being used at the TIP nearly 100% of your weight is being held up with the force of friction in your hitch. When you have a rope over a branch (depending on the diameter of the branch) 50% of your weight is being held by the friction in your hitch, the other 50% is displaced into the branch union. It's why Kevin Bingham came up with the Ropewrench - the RW allows for smoother control of the friction hitch because some of the friction in the hitch is displaced into the RW, the same applies to the friction created by a rope over a branch in a DdRT system.

Adam, 50% of the friction is not removed from the system, it's displaced from the branch into the hitch which is not always a good thing. On the Blakes with a micro pulley, it's a good idea to add one of those small accessory/keyring biners or something similar between your main krab and the micro pulley as it allows the pulley more freedom to turn to either side as you take up the slack and also when the micropulley is acting as a fair lead.