Topcat

Yorkshireman..Seems that thermal imaging worked. If the vta showed very little,why was that tree picked for testing or just the one for the demo? and was it retained. If the tree was found to be dangerous, then that is the ideal result. But likewise does it make you feel you have to go around all the other trees that show similar signs during the VTA? and test them? and if you did'nt would you be negligent if a neighbouring tree failed in the near future?

"At the moment I can see operators making wrong calls (on unsafe trees) and ending up in court. " This is a gross generalisation" No,it's my opinion and it's based on my own use of the arborsonic,I also said "I Can see" not I have seen. By the way it seems to be backed up by some of the previous posters,Mr bullman included.(people making wrong calls that is) I thought the debate was about what machines were in the market and are they any good.I gave my opinion of the one I have and use. It would also seem that some of the thinking behind decay detection has not in the past been to hot(Marcus post). It seems to me (and just my opinion)that this side of the industry needs to do some catching up. It's all there in the books,Body langauge of trees, Principles of tree hazard assessment and of course Shigo and CODIT and now we need a machine that can see all and put it on paper. The science of failure in wood is well covered it's just the science of getting a good machine to capture it that is lacking.Perhaps thermal imaging is the one. Just out of interest,What do you use?

Bundle..Quote ".....It is not a view point I can condone and offers nothing constuctive to the debate .....Conservative tree care for the ignorant !" Well until the science is proven i am happy to stay conservative and ignorant. As to adding to the debate,I tought we were debating the pro's and con's. Whilst we would all love a fool proof system I'm afraid that,like some one else said " a couple of mins with the tree officer and and hammer" will still continue. Tree officers do know how easy it is to miss read findings and given what Marcus says you can see why it easy to make mistakes. "The equipment being used to collate the information required was being shoehorned into these methodologies when in fact the methodologies were not suitable for the equipment available, and the equipment available was not suitable to give the information required for the models." The thermal imaging is expensive but if it works? in the meantime I will continue to use my arbsonic as a back up only and if one or two borderline trees come down a few years early at least I will be able to sleep at night.

I'm 48 now and climb most days or i did when we had plenty of work (tks Gordon). I'm not probably as fast as the younger guys but go for quality not quantity.As for staying up longer I did try viagra but it don't work the same in trees more the pitty.

Tony...The trouble is, it is the man in the wig that decides what was negligence. You could have tested the tree with every gadget known to man. He can still trun around and say,was in not your years of experience that led you to do these tests in the first place. Should you not have gone with your first thought? after all Mr arborist working for the prosecution stated in his report that this tree was unsafe without these tests and unfortunately he was proved right in this instance.

If that guy on ebay can get £25 a net for his fancy Indian wood or what ever it was I'm sure you could get decent money for the logs in nets. We have a few smaller garden centers where we take fancy bits,apple,cherry,laburnum etc. Stack the nets on a pallet in a corner £10 a bag and give them 30% for selling. You will be suprised how many people go to these places and leave their brains at home. Nice smelly wood exactly 10" log in a bag that the husband can carry (when instructed by the wife of course,it must be her idea) and use as a display in front of thier open fire, Which we all know is really gas

Bought one of the first Arborsonics. Probably used it a dozen times. It works but only confirms what I knew in the first place. If I ever think "should I use it or get a different test done" it means the tree in question is usually in a high target area. By that time I have already done my VTA and found enough for the tree to come down. Once others know you have put money and time into such gadgets they do tend to believe you are taking a more proffessional approach and your reports have a lot more more credit. The trouble is that in this day of liability claims, would you call a tree safe using anything in the market, when a fellow arborist states a tree to be unsafe? I won a planning appeal some years back and the inspector based his decision on the folowing.He could see the faults in the tree once pointed out,but he could not see any measurement of stability. All the points on stability and health were based on theory whilst faults were based on fact. The tree would have to be felled to prove the theory whilst faults could easily be seen.If there was an element of doubt that this target tree could fail , it should be removed. It will always be easier to prove unsafe over safe when it comes down to liability. Thats why there is the 3 D's in TPO regs. I've never come across a TO that will get an injunction to stop a tree been felled once a damning report goes in and can we really blame them? I think there is a place for decay detection but it needs to be 100% proven.At the moment I can see operators making wrong calls (on unsafe trees) and ending up in court. It's far to easy for the manufacture to claim that the operator miss read the data etc and walk away. Saying all of this the thermal imaging is starting to look good and may be something that I would invest in

No...buy 2 one for a off road toy

Arbtalk...giving tree surgeons a voice. Arbtalk...1200 tree surgeons can't be wrong (or what ever no of members are) Arbtalk....Join while it's free..(tongue in cheek)lol

have had a 01 for 5 yrs with 145K on the clock, Good all round motor just sold a 02 to a friend for £2300 + vat. Just did not seem as good to drive as my 01. This is the 3rd one I've had and touch wood never had a major problem.Wish I could have said the same for the disco

ARBTALK... Where men can get a word in edge ways..or men don't just talk about sex

If tree's make you tick, give arbtalk a click

Thinking about who will see the T shirts,how many know what arb is? ARBTALK.co.uk "where tree people talk" ..or.. "It's a way of life"

Arbtalk Tree fellars are better than one

"ARBTALK" ....and then printed upside down "If your reading this I'm inspecting your bush"..or "It your reading this your rings say your only 25"

Lose a wife but get a life at arbtalk.co.uk

Honda Acty UWX 103X...£375 deposit followed by 18mths at £66..remeber going into the village with me name on the side and big smerk on face..felt like I was driving artic. Any load garden rubbish moved to tip for £10.

Pi**ed and looking for ARBTALK stand

Disco seemed to cost a fortune and crap MPG. Shogun was a crap ride (well the driving ones were). Gone back to the hi lux double cab,use it for work and pleasure. Pulls great,best ride of all and I put dogs in a cage,trailer on and off we go camping. Look like the dingles so we avoid C & C club sites but all good fun.

10 yr old going on 25. Note the trousers £25 of dougie bennet. [/img]

Thou must not get mog stuck and uproot tpo cherry when performing self recovery using winch and then tell TO that you can not find one of the tree's on is work schedule.

Thou will not stuff furry animal into a football,cover said football with horse hair, run down embankment on rail lines in dead of night and throw into chipper. Especially when the line as been closed whilst the police look for suicide mans head on line.This may cause red patches on chip pile and groundies to faint and spew everywhere.

Thou will not get a trouser response when thy female customer stands at the door letting her dressing gown fall slightly open and ask's " would you like to come in and have something to warm you before you get up there" Thou wilst not split your sides after spitting a greeney out of the pick up window then hearing your mate in the back shout "fecking fly just splatted me face" thou will never again ask a man in a yank bar if he knows where you can find fags around here. thou will be more careful when out with other saints for the last xmas supper and go into a gay bar. thou will politely refuse advances yet crack up when St climber gets the come on from the 18 stone DJ dressed as father xmas.

Thou shall not kill, except... When saw is sent up empty or not warmed up. The groundies are having a fag party and not bothered about you hanging by the balls. The end of your climbing rope gets fed into the chipper. Thou shall't not commit adultery even when.. The customers wife is well fit,younger than your wife and you,meets you in a club with 4 of her mates and tells them about the dildo fun she had whilst watching the tree work. Your mates are with you, hear all of above and insist that if you don't,at least 1 if not all of them will. You will not take the name of the lord in vain...even though he appears to you in a vision on site in the guise of a jumped up little TO waving a TPO for a £2000 job you had just started. T shirt slogan..." Tree fellars are better than one"

It's not the ride that kills you. It's the stopping when you eventually hit something. Get it changed.would you use your c/saw if you had an idea something was wrong and it might just bite you?