ArbjobsNick

Glad you all agree that we need some form of certification for folk wanting to splice their own kit this would be a good move forward in splicing safety. Re Yale splices as I said before they are 80 - 90% done by hand anyway the rope in pulled back in (Buried) to itself with a machine that can excerpt up to 5 tonnes of pressure you cant do this by hand and it isnt pre loading the rope as you suggest it is pulling the rope back in to itself a task that any hand splicer finds hard to do to a consistant level. My understanding is that the European CE hand splicers are also using a machine to finish thier rope too ensuring a consistant bury. If you want a story about hand splices coming undone maybe you should talk to Puk in Holland who I understand is a European CE approved hand splicer and has personally witnessed a splice coming undone. Is a UK hand splice stronger than a Yale factory one? I don't know as nobody in the UK as far as I am aware has as yet put their splices through the same testing proceedures that are required to pass CE. Maybe we should buy some UK hand splices and test them to compare the results. If its OK to make up your own rope splices without testing them then surely it must be OK to make your own Harness, Karibiners or chainsaw trousers or would that not be acceptable ? Some people need to decide were they stand on UK safety they are either pro safety or not. You cannot change your mind depending on the product or who your mates are. It's simple it either undergoes the correct industrial EN CE testing for its use as a safety line ie EN1891 A or B or it isn't. Black and White.

Hi Pete Some good points there, I was taught to splice three strand too but I think anyone who has tried splicing 16 strand + will admit its a whole different ball game. Has there been any hand splices that have failed to be honest I don't know just read another thread on here aout a lad cutting his hand was it notified was it recorded either again I dont know so just because they are not on record doesn't mean they havent happened and the more lads on here are recommended to have a go the more accidents I think we might see how many fatalities do we need before back room splicing by amaters is not recommended? I know for a fact that Yale facotry splices are 80 - 90% hand done and finished using a machine that draws in the splice by a machine that excerts about 5 tonne of pressure can this be doen by hand? So is a hand splice or a factory prepared CE marked splice safer to climb on? Mmmmmm let me think about that one. Why do the manufacturers have hand splicing instructions on their website well you can at this moment in time hand splice a rigging rope as it doesnt need a CE as its not part of PPE. I am glad you don't approve of wholesale back room hand splicing but who is OK to do it and who isn't and how can a LOLER inspector or climber differentiate one form the other? It's a bit like driving a car without an MOT sure loads of people do it and get away with it but is it safe? Can of worms ? Oh yea.

No probs be good to have some show of hands to know who is coming to have a go if at all poss. Thanks guys and girls Nick

adbat Thank you for your kind promotion of the site reming me to buy you a beer when I see you next. I will be at Justins Show in August so come say I if your there. Nick

Stuart. It’s good to see someone asking what the climbers want and trying to explain that if they want a good comp they will need to pay for it Ying and Yang Having helped organise these events since 2006 ( till this year ) I probably know better than most how much effort is needed to pull a comp together. The organisers put in hundreds of hours of unpaid voluntary time for each event. This has to take its toll I have had to take a back seat this year due to other business commitments Alex Laver gave an awful lot of time in 2008 / 2009, I am sure everyone involved in the organisational side of the comps would admit it can be a very thank less task. With very little appreciation of your efforts from the climbers taking part. The few that do thank you for your time do make a difference and it is pleasing to see climbers abilities grow year by year Josephine Hedger battled annually to improve her climbing and as a result is now World Champion, results like that make it all worth the effort. One event a year would take a hell of a load off of the shoulders of those organising these events and it may bring in more helpers to set up run and dismantle the Preliminary events. You will need even more if you are to have separate trees for Novice, Intermediate and Men’s categories. Remember these guys give up their weekend and workdays to set up and help and don’t get a chance of a prize. In the past I personally helped sponsor the TCC’s to help subsidise the comps. Other kind annual Sponsors like Martyn Honey (Honey Brothers) returned year after year. Speaking as a past sponsor your event will need to be marketed, booked (no change of date or location) well in advance and the climbers need to stand up and be counted by supporting the event with paid up attendance (in advance) this allows the organisers to get some idea of numbers and plan goody bags, T Shirt’s, catering and toilet facilities climbers take for granted. The promotional organisation needs to be top level. Sponsors like me will not return to be subjected to little or no marketing or appreciation alongside poor attendance we need to show some return for our support or we may as well just spend the money on a nice family holiday. Experience has shown that a lot of climbers think its fine to arrive late on the day totting crap kit they haven’t even bothered checking themselves expecting to take part, this attitude just isn’t acceptable. Thankfully the majority do take pride in their equipment and try and arrive in advance to allow the organisers to look over their kit and get the show rolling on time. If short if UK climbers want a premium UK comp you have to commit to it not sit on the fence. Stuart is asking for your help he is asking for your guidance for Christ sake give the guy a hand.

Sorry guys here goes my take on this I haven't said much to date but there appears to be a lot of confusion and miss information out there regarding hand splicing. My understanding is this a splice correctly done will be a lot stronger than a knot. Let me be very clear I like them I think they are good, however..... Knots are taught during training and are part of our climbing history if you lose the spliced eye off of your rope due to wear and tear you will need to either try splicing the tail end yourself or use a knot until its replaced. Its knot (excuse the pun) ideal but hey the other choice is buying a new line. If you want to hand splice your personal climbing kit and feel capable of doing it to a high enough standard and have a LOLER inspector that will pass them it’s your risk. A LOLER inspector has his own liability cover insuring him to inspect your equipment if he is happy that your splice is up to industry standards, or not it is his choice. By passing your hand splice he assumes the responsibility of justifying his decision in court should an accident occur. If you hand splice a line for anyone else (paid or not) you are becoming a manufacturer, should that product now fail you will be responsible for the outcome. Do you carry manufacturers liability? To hand splice a climbing line you have to deviate (change) the product from its original tested construction removing fibres to allow the splice to be constructed. It is now a different product. It may look the same it may feel the same but in the eyes of the LAW it isn't and therefore will not and should not carry the original CE mark. See my article on CE in the AA Newsletter. LOLER and HSE all recommends you use CE marked and tested equipment for industrial use. Climbing at home or recreationally I understand you can pretty much do what you want. Insurance? If you’re not using CE marked / tested equipment and have an accident will you be covered? Will the mate who spliced it for you pay for your care? I doubt it. If you have done it for someone else and they get injured do you want to end up in court ? Several European hand splicer have had their splices CE tested and approved to date I understand no UK hand splicer has gone down this route although I understand at least one well known splicer is looking at this option very seriously, he has my full support. Invention and development of new climbing products can be done under specific risk assessments and trailed using additional safety constraints. I don't think they have a place being trailed and tested in the in the everyday workplace? But this is just my opinion.

Hi Dean I am sure the Austria II and III both have the quick release leg loops and waist belt, you still need to climb in past the bridge but once on you just clip up the waist belt and leg loops. Always a faff to constantly do up the old ones each time you use it but with the II and III once set you shouldn't need to touch them again unless you are really cold and putitng on loads of layers

If any of you are considering buying some Imori why not come along and have a climb on it in the competition at the FR Jones Forestry and Arb show on the 6th & 7th of August. I will have a new 37 meter hank for you to use. I think its construction is one of the most inovative uses of materials I have seen since Yale XTC Plus and New England Ultra V came out all those years ago. Pre crimped fibres built in to the construction giving the rope a tactile bulk finish that feels like a used 13mm line with all the weight and knotting benefits of 11.5mm lines without the finger burn! Don't take my word for it try it yourself and see what all the fuss is about:thumbup:.

Hey Mr Witt be good to see you just turn up chap as I said on the last post we will have some forms on site as I am sure we will have a few guys wanting to have a crack once they see what its all about. Look forward to catching up with you. Nick

Afraid you do have to print off the entry forms from the site fill them in and post to us. Pre bookeing will ensure you can climb but you can just bring them with you and hope for the best. I will have some more entry forms printed off ready for use on the day, I know what you lot are like Last Min.com pre entry for these events will help us plan them better and we do appreciate your help. Looking forward to the event if the AA one was anything to go for it should be really good for everyone tking part. See you there Nick

Glad to see so much interest in the event, Paul and I put a new climbing event together for this years AA Arb Show and we are bringing the same format to Justin's Arb and Forestry Show in Kent. It has some simularities with the ISA work climb event difficult to run anytree climbing event without some cross over. We are only having two categories Novice and Expert at this location mainly due to time constaints over the two days. Everyone will start form the top of the tree so it doesn't matter how fast or slow you are getting up there. Climbers will then climb around the canopy carrying out a number of tasks tossing a log, walking a limb, lanyarding in and out at each station. It should be like falling off a log for most of you guys. Speed is not actually everything in this event safe climbing tecneque and successfull acomplishment of the tasks will get you points and possibly a win. If you havent got your own kit don't worry we can lend you some new stuff to climb in. If you are entering please make sure your kit is up to scratch as we will be checking it before you have a go so please dont bring your 15 year old harness, blue three strand polyprop climbing rope or two way Krabs or we will be sending you over to see Justin for some new kit : ) For entry forms rules and more info please have a look at the website. Arboricultural Association Arborist Tree Challenge

Congrats to Jon and Jo : )

Hi James much o the credit goes to Paul Searl, Nigel Fagg, Tony Darbyshire, Mark Merrit and Ben Connan who helped set the whole thing up tech and check the climbers kit. I should also thank Elaine who put in loads of effort over the weekend Jo Musson and the AA for promoting the event. Not forgettting Northern Arb, Honey Brothers, F.R.Jones and Sons and Forest and Arb who support the prizes in the four categories. Thanks also to ISC and Stein Safety for supplying bits for those who booked in advance and Stein and Sawpod who provided additional prizes for the winners. Blimey a lot of thanks finally thanks to all of you for supporting the event stuff like this takes a lot of time and effort to put together and your support during the show made it all worth it. I hope you enjoyed yourselves and look forward to seeing you at the Forest and Arb show in Kent 4th 5th August. Take care Nick

Sorry all 3ATC sites been down for a few days Ive been away and unable to sort it out all back ap and running now so please feel free to download entry forms. As I said I am trying to sort out Tshirts etc for all booking in advance and could do with an idea of numbers. Entries have been coming in over the last few days but lots more space available hope to see you all there. Nick http://www.3atc.com

All you have to do is a tree climb and you even get to start it from the top (well most of you will) anyone booking in advance will get a goodie bag to go home with so nobody is leaving empty handed. FR JONES & Son, Honey Brothers and Forest and Arb are all supplying prizes for First Second and Third places so these is plenty to win. The competiton is open to any individual climber entry fee for the comp is only £10! For more information visit http://www.3atc.com

I think some of you may be getting confused with two simular products I have read that Kwick Clot used by US forces can cause burns when in contact with the skin and liquid (water blood etc) were as CELOX appears to not have these effects. I would hazzard a guess that if either of these products came in to contact with your eyes it would not be very pleasant. I am more concerned with the lack of understanding folk have regarding CELOX I think if you were to pour it on to a femoral bleed it would wash straight out again with the flow of blood. Unfortunalty although widely avaiable the product is not distributed with any decent user guide. If you have some it is well worth looking up how to use the product correctly including stemming the flow of blood before applying the sachet and keeping the flow reduced until clotting has occured after application. If you have or are thinking about buying this product have a look at this site for more info on safe use of CELOX. Celox Home Page IMO although CELOX is a good product you shouldn't overlook including a blood stopper / wound dressing in your first aid bag and or a few sanitary towels and bandages to help reduce the blood flow if the CELOX doesn't work.

European Kit is more expensive than American kit because of the more extensive and rigousous testing it gets to meet EU safety standards. As a climber you should be wearing type C most of the time. Make sure the kit you are buying carries a CE mark and an EN number their are non conforming products around that look very simular to a tested item but do not conform to CE safety requirements and have not been tested properly (note to UK industry) if it's cheap their may be a reason for it! We also have LOLEr over here you may not have come accross it yet but to ensure your kit is fully traceable keep all your recipts who ever you work for should aks to see your kit list and add it to their LOLER schedule. Hope you enjoy the show. Nick

Don't think of it as Veteran think of it as Senior been there seen it done it now have my own section so I can take my time climbing around nice and steady as I don't need to rush around like an idiot I have nothing to prove to anyone. Its a bit of a pipe and slippers class for gentleman of status but I am not laying on the whisky and cut glass decanter when you have done LOL. If any of you do want to join in the fun I could really do with some entry forms I am trying to organise the comemorative "I WAS ARB ENOUGH" Tshirts and goodie bags for everyone taking part and don't wan't anyone going away empty handed. Entry fee is only £10 per climb (take part in as many as you want but only first one scores) if you book in advance you can request to climb Friday or Saturday. I can now announce that Forest and Arb, Honey Brothers and FR Jones (Jonsies) have all very kindly offered prizes for the categories all have donated gift vouchers to the following amounts £150 1st £100 2nd £50 3rd. In addition Arb distributer Fletcher Stewart have also offered to gift us some additional prizes. I would like to thank them all for their support. Nick Arboricultural Association Arborist Tree Challenge Sponsored by Arbjobs.com - Tree Jobs! - Home

Appart from the Premier Climber category all of the other categories will start climbing from a fxed anchor point in the top of the tree we are looking at how we get you all up there MEWP/climb etc. At the start point (top of the tree) you will be asked to sound a bell horn etc and then carry out a number of tasks around the tree climbing safely but quickly between the targets/tasks. Its all very easy and yes very like the Climbers and cutters climb tree but without the zipline! Be good to see you along. If you want to take part please let me have a booking form so I can add you to the list and order enough goodies for everyone taking part thermal mugs TShirts etc. Nick Arboricultural Association Arborist Tree Challenge Sponsored by Arbjobs.com - Tree Jobs! - Home

The flatline station will only be used by the Premier climbers at a point level or just above the standard anchor point, premier climbers will need to install a higher anchor or redirect to reach it safely they will not be allowed to flat line for safetly reasons. The additional difficulties in reaching this target is part of their skills test and will hopefully demonstrate a number of different approaches to the same problem. You can climb on either or even both days if you wish I am trying to organise some comemorative goodies t shirts thermal mugs etc so I really could do with knowing how many of you want to enter as I don't want to run out of freebies. Ladders !! LOL unless you are competing in the Premier level you probably wont need them as every other section will be starting from the top of the tree working down. Not sure how we are going to get you all in to the top yet we are still working on that one but I wouldn't worry about bringing your ladders lads. I hope this helps. Nick

Hey Rupes you can now join the 3ATC seniors LOL congrats mate.

The all new Arborist Tree Challenge will be hosting a new workclimb challenge at this years AA Arb Show at Cirencester. Entry is only £10 per climb and with four seperate categories Novice Expert Premier and senior climbers there is plenty of prizes on offer for each category. If you would like to take part please have a look at the competition at Arboricultural Association Arborist Tree Challenge

Having judged the Throw line for the ISA comps the last few years a lot of the guys and girls use Zingitt its a pretty good line the weaver is good if you need to pull a landrover out of a ditch but has way too much memory (retains its loops) The new Stein Throw line looks promising its only just come here I think its made in Germany but initial reports are good and its a hell of a lot cheaper than Zingitt or Liros at only about £15. I also see the new Blue Stein cubes have arived same price as the old ones at about £25 but they have now fitted them with ends on the rods to stop them poking out the corners a major issue with the old ones !

It's brilliant news if you join now you will be the only one in that class and therefore will probably win! : )