PWR Bioheat. How are these IDIOTS so cheap?

[Stumpy Grinder]

You're completely missing my point. I have no issue with CHP or biomass in general, I'm taking about using the heat generated as a side product being used in a totally inefficient way because it's not their objective. We have a biomass installation because we want just the heat and we use it as efficiently as possible, including for drying firewood in a properly designed insulated chamber/kiln. Our boiler went in for heating our livestock sheds and saving electricity. We save more in electric&gas that we get in RHI so the logs are just as side line.

 

Anyone blasting air into a hangar or shed to 'dry' logs, should have their RHI payments removed imho. (Grain drying floors excluded)

 

There are a few people I've heard of drying green waste with and to burn in their CHP systems, after already being paid to take it from the council, who are then being paid RHI. Now that's just burning wood for the sake of burning wood and is completely immoral.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

But is it the fault of the people doing it, or are they just making the most out of a rubbish system that allows them to exploit it? We see this in other areas such as the previous woodland grant schemes which I was involved with. Estates were paid good money to improve and look after the woods. A portion of this money was to be used to pay for effective deer control. However, some of the recipients were still 'selling' the deer stalking! It's nothing more than fraud really?

Reminds me of a funny letter from a few years back about farmers getting paid for not farming!

Dear Secretary of State,

 

A friend, who is in farming at the moment, has recently received a cheque for £3,000 from the Rural Payments Agency for not rearing pigs and I would like to join the ‘not rearing pigs’ business.

 

In your opinion, what is the best kind of farm not to rear pigs on, and which is the best breed of pig not to rear? I want to be sure I approach this endeavour in keeping with all government policies, as dictated by the EU under the Common Agricultural Policy. I would prefer not to rear bacon pigs, but if this not the type you want not rearing, I will just as gladly not rear porkers. Are there any advantages in not rearing rare breeds such as Saddlebacks or Gloucester Old Spots, or are there too many farmers not rearing these already?

 

As I see it, the hardest part of this programme will be keeping an accurate record of just how many pigs I haven’t reared. Are there any Government or Local Authority courses on this?

 

My friend is very satisfied with this business. He has been rearing pigs for forty years or so, and the best annual return he ever made on them was £1,422 in 1978; that is, until this year, when he received your cheque for £3,000 for not rearing any.

 

If I were to get £3,000 for not rearing fifty pigs, will I be entitled to £6,000 for not rearing a hundred? I plan to operate on a small scale at first, holding myself down to about 4,000 pigs not raised, which will mean about £240,000 for the first year. However, as I become more expert in not rearing pigs, I plan to be more ambitious, perhaps increasing to, say, 40,000 pigs not reared in my second year, for which I should expect about £2.4 million from your department. Incidentally, I wonder if I would be eligible to receive tradable carbon credits for all these pigs not producing harmful and polluting methane gases?

 

Another point: these pigs that I plan not to rear will not eat 2,000 tonnes of cereals. I understand that you also pay farmers not to grow crops, so will I qualify for payments for not growing cereals in order not to feed the pigs I don’t rear?

 

In order to diversify, I am also considering the ‘not milking cows’ business, so please send any information leaflets you have on that too, please. Would you also include the current DEFRA advice on set-aside fields? Can this be done on an e-commerce basis of ‘virtual’ fields of which I seem to have several thousand hectares?

 

In view of the above, you will realise that I shall be totally unemployed and will, therefore, qualify for unemployment benefits over and above the monies that I shall receive from DEFRA’s Rural Payments Agency.

 

I shall, of course, be voting for your party at the next General Election.

 

Yours Faithfully

SG

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

But is it the fault of the people doing it, or are they just making the most out of a rubbish system that allows them to exploit it? We see this in other areas such as the previous woodland grant schemes which I was involved with. Estates were paid good money to improve and look after the woods. A portion of this money was to be used to pay for effective deer control. However, some of the recipients were still 'selling' the deer stalking! It's nothing more than fraud really?

 

Reminds me of a funny letter from a few years back about farmers getting paid for not farming!

 

Dear Secretary of State,

 

 

 

A friend, who is in farming at the moment, has recently received a cheque for £3,000 from the Rural Payments Agency for not rearing pigs and I would like to join the ‘not rearing pigs’ business.

 

 

 

In your opinion, what is the best kind of farm not to rear pigs on, and which is the best breed of pig not to rear? I want to be sure I approach this endeavour in keeping with all government policies, as dictated by the EU under the Common Agricultural Policy. I would prefer not to rear bacon pigs, but if this not the type you want not rearing, I will just as gladly not rear porkers. Are there any advantages in not rearing rare breeds such as Saddlebacks or Gloucester Old Spots, or are there too many farmers not rearing these already?

 

 

 

As I see it, the hardest part of this programme will be keeping an accurate record of just how many pigs I haven’t reared. Are there any Government or Local Authority courses on this?

 

 

 

My friend is very satisfied with this business. He has been rearing pigs for forty years or so, and the best annual return he ever made on them was £1,422 in 1978; that is, until this year, when he received your cheque for £3,000 for not rearing any.

 

 

 

If I were to get £3,000 for not rearing fifty pigs, will I be entitled to £6,000 for not rearing a hundred? I plan to operate on a small scale at first, holding myself down to about 4,000 pigs not raised, which will mean about £240,000 for the first year. However, as I become more expert in not rearing pigs, I plan to be more ambitious, perhaps increasing to, say, 40,000 pigs not reared in my second year, for which I should expect about £2.4 million from your department. Incidentally, I wonder if I would be eligible to receive tradable carbon credits for all these pigs not producing harmful and polluting methane gases?

 

 

 

Another point: these pigs that I plan not to rear will not eat 2,000 tonnes of cereals. I understand that you also pay farmers not to grow crops, so will I qualify for payments for not growing cereals in order not to feed the pigs I don’t rear?

 

 

 

In order to diversify, I am also considering the ‘not milking cows’ business, so please send any information leaflets you have on that too, please. Would you also include the current DEFRA advice on set-aside fields? Can this be done on an e-commerce basis of ‘virtual’ fields of which I seem to have several thousand hectares?

 

 

 

In view of the above, you will realise that I shall be totally unemployed and will, therefore, qualify for unemployment benefits over and above the monies that I shall receive from DEFRA’s Rural Payments Agency.

 

 

 

I shall, of course, be voting for your party at the next General Election.

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

SG

 

 

No different to benefit fraud in my book.

[SbTVF]

But is it the fault of the people doing it, or are they just making the most out of a rubbish system that allows them to exploit it? We see this in other areas such as the previous woodland grant schemes which I was involved with. Estates were paid good money to improve and look after the woods. A portion of this money was to be used to pay for effective deer control. However, some of the recipients were still 'selling' the deer stalking! It's nothing more than fraud really?

 

Reminds me of a funny letter from a few years back about farmers getting paid for not farming!

 

Dear Secretary of State,

 

 

 

A friend, who is in farming at the moment, has recently received a cheque for £3,000 from the Rural Payments Agency for not rearing pigs and I would like to join the ‘not rearing pigs’ business.

 

 

 

In your opinion, what is the best kind of farm not to rear pigs on, and which is the best breed of pig not to rear? I want to be sure I approach this endeavour in keeping with all government policies, as dictated by the EU under the Common Agricultural Policy. I would prefer not to rear bacon pigs, but if this not the type you want not rearing, I will just as gladly not rear porkers. Are there any advantages in not rearing rare breeds such as Saddlebacks or Gloucester Old Spots, or are there too many farmers not rearing these already?

 

 

 

As I see it, the hardest part of this programme will be keeping an accurate record of just how many pigs I haven’t reared. Are there any Government or Local Authority courses on this?

 

 

 

My friend is very satisfied with this business. He has been rearing pigs for forty years or so, and the best annual return he ever made on them was £1,422 in 1978; that is, until this year, when he received your cheque for £3,000 for not rearing any.

 

 

 

If I were to get £3,000 for not rearing fifty pigs, will I be entitled to £6,000 for not rearing a hundred? I plan to operate on a small scale at first, holding myself down to about 4,000 pigs not raised, which will mean about £240,000 for the first year. However, as I become more expert in not rearing pigs, I plan to be more ambitious, perhaps increasing to, say, 40,000 pigs not reared in my second year, for which I should expect about £2.4 million from your department. Incidentally, I wonder if I would be eligible to receive tradable carbon credits for all these pigs not producing harmful and polluting methane gases?

 

 

 

Another point: these pigs that I plan not to rear will not eat 2,000 tonnes of cereals. I understand that you also pay farmers not to grow crops, so will I qualify for payments for not growing cereals in order not to feed the pigs I don’t rear?

 

 

 

In order to diversify, I am also considering the ‘not milking cows’ business, so please send any information leaflets you have on that too, please. Would you also include the current DEFRA advice on set-aside fields? Can this be done on an e-commerce basis of ‘virtual’ fields of which I seem to have several thousand hectares?

 

 

 

In view of the above, you will realise that I shall be totally unemployed and will, therefore, qualify for unemployment benefits over and above the monies that I shall receive from DEFRA’s Rural Payments Agency.

 

 

 

I shall, of course, be voting for your party at the next General Election.

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

SG

 

 

 

It's a fault of unscrupulous people who can't help but take advantage of the loopholes in the policy or try to work their way round the wording of the rules to work it in their favour. The rules are pretty sensible and simple but there are always those who take the piss because they have the audacity to get away with it.

 

There's chicken producers throughout the country leaving the doors open during turnaround to generate more RHI when they should be turning the heat off. Unless a government inspector turns up and sees it they'll never get found out.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[openspaceman]

No different to benefit fraud in my book.

 

The difference from benefit fraud is one: it isn't unlawful and two: the sums gained are much larger.

[cornish wood burner]

That looks really interesting technology, however it doesn't seem that efficient in an environmental or financial sense...

 

It turns 1kg of wood chips into 1kWh of electricity, that means only about 25% of the energy in the wood is turned into electricity.... that's not particularly good, especially when you consider the amount of energy required to cut down the trees/ transport the trees/ chip the tree etc.

 

In a financial sense it doesn't seem that efficient either, I cant see a system like that costing much less than £500k by the time you include a new building & wood store etc. All for a system that produces 45kW of power. What does wholesale electricity cost? 5p a kWh? That means it only produces £2.25 of electricity an hour. Running 24/7 the system the system would produce £20k of electricity a year.

 

 

 

 

 

You might as well leave the trees standing, buy a £10k diesel generator and use the diesel that would have been used to transport and chip the trees in the generator.

There will also be spare heat from the gasifier and engine cooling system. We looked into this and after drying the chip to feed the CHP there would be spare heat available for other uses. Quite a long payback though.

[Alycidon]

Well they are doing something right,

 

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC456100/PWR-BIOHEAT-LIMITED/financials#key-financials

 

Looks like 500k or so to set the business up, suspect they are writing assets down hard, and reducing debts equally well. So somewhere they are making good money.

 

A

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

Well they are doing something right,

 

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC456100/PWR-BIOHEAT-LIMITED/financials#key-financials

 

Looks like 500k or so to set the business up, suspect they are writing assets down hard, and reducing debts equally well. So somewhere they are making good money.

 

A

 

Handouts. Not business.

[Logsnstuff]

comes back to the discussion we had on here a year or 2 ago where kiln dried is an inferior product due to some of the volatiles being cooked off in the kiln.

Can't blame them for exploiting loopholes I might be tempted myself had I joined the bandwagon speaking to some guys with kilns they don't actually have to sell any logs to make a good living with what the RHI is paying them, so £70 is a joke but it's essentially a bonus to them and why I don't get any distance orders anymore, at £120 a cube ex yard whos going to buy my superior quality air dried at almost double the price and I'm not prepared to fight a downward spiral into bankruptcy.

Air dried guys just need to get the word out about having a superior product.

 

there is the other issue with tree surgeons selling bags at £30 £40 £50 and saying anything more is ripping people off, when they are double dipping having charged to dispose of waste and then selling it as firewood this just confuses people and does the industry no good either.

[gdh]

I think the biggest advantage with force drying wood isn't how dry it gets (as long as it's below 20% it will burn well regardless of how it gets there) but the fact you can sell more wood.

 

Unless you have masses of storage space you can only sell what you cut in the summer, with a drying system you only need space to cut and dry so you can cut right through the year.

[Logsnstuff]

you shouldn't be able to make a living off the payments though, I just went back over that guys website and his £70 a cube including delivery is cheaper than I can ship a pallet to London cheapest quote I think I got was £80+vat fair enough start sending a few the price comes down a bit but essentially this guy is giving his wood away for free.