Pick-up speed limits

[Lunner]

Why would dealers have to know or make it available? You are buying the truck, it is up to you to know which laws apply to it. I could go and buy a 3.5t trailer tomorrow and start towing it around. It is up to me to ensure that I have the correct vehicle to tow it and the correct licence

 

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[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Having been a Navara owner for many years, mine has always been tested as a class 4. But have heard of people having problems with Mot stations with regard to them being tested as class 7

 

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Have a look at the flowchart in post 63 (may not open on a phone) By my reckoning (which may well be wrong) I think it should be class 7.

[Woodworks]

Why would dealers have to know or make it available? You are buying the truck, it is up to you to know which laws apply to it. I could go and buy a 3.5t trailer tomorrow and start towing it around. It is up to me to ensure that I have the correct vehicle to tow it and the correct licence

 

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Because it's in their interest to know about their trucks if they want to sell them. If I went to a dealer who knew diddly squat about what they were selling would simply walk away.

[Richard 1234]

Have a look at the flowchart in post 63 (may not open on a phone) By my reckoning (which may well be wrong) I think it should be class 7.

 

 

Just out of interest did you get in touch with Toyota UK?

You would think head office would know the answer?!

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Why would dealers have to know or make it available? You are buying the truck, it is up to you to know which laws apply to it. I could go and buy a 3.5t trailer tomorrow and start towing it around. It is up to me to ensure that I have the correct vehicle to tow it and the correct licence

 

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Er, (a) because they could be liable for financial losses incurred as a result of misinformation they intentionally or negligently provided, (b) because they are issuing MoT certificates (which may or may not be the correct class) after the 3 year point for vehicles they sold and (c ) because a salesperson that doesn't 'know' his product lacks credibility.

 

Because it's in their interest to know about their trucks if they want to sell them. If I went to a dealer who knew diddly squat about what they were selling would simply walk away.

 

Quite!

 

Not wishing to get into an argument about it mate, I'm just 'doing my thing' and sharing the detail in case anyone else is interested or may be following. If you're happy to drive past a camera at 70 and not bothered if your truck is MoT'd at class 4 or 7, or not bothered if, by potentially not having a valid MoT, your insurance is invalidated..... It's no concern of mine.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Just out of interest did you get in touch with Toyota UK?

You would think head office would know the answer?!

 

Salesman has been talking to 'head office technical.' We'll see what this coming week brings Richard.

[waterbuoy]

Morning Kevin

 

I've been following your efforts with some interest, and admire your perseverance if nothing else.

 

One suggestion ref your flowchart - I don't think the 'No' answer for vehicles with a gross design weight between 3000-3500kg should go back to the top? If such a vehicle exists then the user will simply end up going round and round in the same loop - pretty much as you have been doing with Toyota!

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Morning Kevin

 

I've been following your efforts with some interest, and admire your perseverance if nothing else.

 

One suggestion ref your flowchart - I don't think the 'No' answer for vehicles with a gross design weight between 3000-3500kg should go back to the top? If such a vehicle exists then the user will simply end up going round and round in the same loop - pretty much as you have been doing with Toyota!

 

 

👍🏻😆👍🏻

 

Yes I know mate! I looped it back like that because that's as far as my interest / stamina goes... 😳

[openspaceman]

👍🏻😆👍🏻

 

Yes I know mate! I looped it back like that because that's as far as my interest / stamina goes... 😳

 

c'mon Kevin you have yet to add in details for car derived vans:001_smile:

 

As it happens I have put a sticker in our 14 plate hilux crewcab to say it is a DPV, they'd have to remove all the kit and remove the hard top plus empty the fuel to find out. I'm hoping you will get a definitive answer for me.

 

Having said that the guys have never been stopped for speeding, tacho or weight and that's with about 15 commercials of various sizes under 3.5 tonnes towing tracked chippers in the 7 years I have been with the firm.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

c'mon Kevin you have yet to add in details for car derived vans:001_smile:

 

-- Perhaps....... If I was buying one!

 

As it happens I have put a sticker in our 14 plate hilux crewcab to say it is a DPV, they'd have to remove all the kit and remove the hard top plus empty the fuel to find out. I'm hoping you will get a definitive answer for me.

 

-- I'm not at all sure I should be confident - 'definitive' seems to be in short supply!

 

Having said that the guys have never been stopped for speeding, tacho or weight and that's with about 15 commercials of various sizes under 3.5 tonnes towing tracked chippers in the 7 years I have been with the firm.

 

-- And that, in reality, is the situation. Like much in life though, not a problem until there is a problem and some smart Alec goes through your paperwork in an attempt to obviate their liability for a claim / pay out?

 

[/quot

 

email from dealer Friday:

 

From:

Subject: Hilux Weight

Date: 16 September 2016 17:16:39 BST

To:

 

As per our conversation. Reply received as below

*

Hi Jon,

*

*

Information as follows:

*

·******* Weight of Invincible Double Cab* - 2090kg kerb weight

·******* Speed limits - https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

·******* Mot class - Goods vehicles (not more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight)

·******* Classed as Multi-Purpose Vehicle (DVLA say has to be below 2040 KG) - Not classed as such since it is over 2040kg.* This is the same for most other manufacturers on top end double cab product, definitely VW, Ford.* Nissan's brochure only indicate base grade weights.

*

Please note that this is our interpretation, but we are not the experts.* DVSA are the right people to confirm with.

 

My reply this morning:

 

From: Kevin

Subject: Re: Hilux Weight

Date: 18 September 2016 10:40:03 BST

To:

 

Thanks Jon,*

 

it might seem like I’m labouring the point (and I am because I don’t seem to be getting clear answers) but there appears to be different*terminology being applied which seems to be confusing the issue.*

 

You’re using the term ‘kerb’ weight’ to define eligibility for DPV status - or not in this case since it’s quoted below as 2090kg.**

 

‘Kerb weight’ is not specifically defined, so far as I can see, in the Toyota brochure. *It is defined in the Ford Ranger brochure as:

 

*“…the weight*of the complete vehicle and all equipment including fuel and water, but without the payload, driver or any crew…”

 

Unladen weight is the term used at https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained *This is defined as:

 

“…The unladen weight of any*vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items. *It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road. *It doesn’t include the weight of the fuel or, if it’s an electric vehicle, the batteries…”

 

Is Toyota’s use of the term ‘kerb weight’ the weight defined by the government’s definition or is it the same as Ford’s definition? *Government excludes fuel, Ford includes fuel.

 

You will recall the MoT class discussion we previously had? *You assured me, after checking with the MoT testing manager, that Hilux always*has, and continues to be, class 4 MoT. *It appears from the quote below that it should in fact be class 7. *Am I reading that right?*

 

I have found the whole process of attempting to get accurate answers to these pretty fundamental questions very frustrating. *

 

I put together the attached flow chart to try and get it clear in my mind and it seems pretty conclusive to me. *The outstanding question, and that which will define the answers to all the second order questions (vehicle classification, speed limit, MoT class) remains:

 

*What is the unladen weight (as defined by government) of the Toyota Hilux Invincible?

 

The comment below suggesting that DVSA should confirm is not what I might have expected. *

 

The question “What is the unladen weight of this vehicle?” *Is absolutely a question for Toyota, not DVSA. *

 

What happens as a consequence of the weight of the vehicle is clearly defined and may be ‘policed’ by DVSA but weighing it and making the data available is not.

 

If we can’t get an answer to that question from the technical people we are going to have to take your demo vehicle and put it on a weighbridge. *

 

 

**

 

Kevin*

 

Jumping back a couple of posts, to the question 'why should the dealer need to tell you the weight of the vehicle....'

 

Well, because, if it's close to the cut off weight 2040kg, it could influence the number and type of ancillaries / extras you might choose (it's easy to see that it wouldn't be in the dealer's interest to make that information available and possibly lose a sale of a higher spec'd vehicle.)

 

Example - I've opted for the spay 'linex' load liner which is permanent and will add to unladen weight whereas the drop in tub or a rubber matt (which could be removed so not necessarily part of the unladen weight calc's) might be a better choice given the implications.

 

Sports roll bar is an option you can add / remove - again more weight.

 

Canopy, perhaps if fitted on delivery might be included in unladen weight, not so if after market fit.

 

Aircon, underbody protection, wheel arch protectors etc, etc.... All available via the 'build my car' part of the Toyota website but the more you add on the more weight you add.