Lombardy Fell Incident

[skyhuck]

1 minute ago, WesD said:

He says undertake a fell on that tree, I took that as he wouldn’t fell Lombardy Pops.

 

Would you have felled it?

Without seeing it in the flesh I can't say, but I've felled 100's of Lombardys over the years, some in pretty tight spots.

[WesD]

14 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

Without seeing it in the flesh I can't say, but I've felled 100's of Lombardys over the years, some in pretty tight spots.

Suppose that’s the key ingredient, seeing it in the flesh. What’s bugging me about it is someone made the effort to attach the rope high up why not attach it a bit higher and fell it in 3 or 4 sections. Your already there so to speak get a saw sent up and crack on. 

[ArbMish]

1 hour ago, beechwood said:

My hope is that this kind of prosecution will lead to more companies realising if they need to employ fully qualified staff and have good work procedures in place or they are risking a £25k fine if things go wrong.
Surely this will promote higher standards, help weed out the idiots and is in the long term better for the whole industry.

Of course it might just be a unachievable pipe dream but I live in hope.

 

 

 

After finally managing to read the entirety of this thread I thought I'd add a little somthing.

 

I agree with beechwood, there seems to be a lack of training after getting tickets within our industry. I can only talk from my own experience of course but here goes..

 

I'm only in my 3rd year of Arb' specific work and bar college/uni holidays I've always been part time. I've never lied about how much experience I have as I wanted to learn and I didn't see the point in lying about it...you're just gonna get caught out and your employer isn't gonna be too happy with you. Also I always made it clear I was studying horti/arb at college and only working part time...

 

I started with a company that had employed staff of 5/6 with myself added on top of that so a fairly big team (in my experience anyway). The boss wasn't on most jobs (he was transitioning away from doing the heavy work for health reasons I think) but there was a gaffer. I was given pretty minimal 'training' - how to mix fuel, how to use their model of chipper etc. After that, pretty much nothing. Even at times when there would have been 'time' to give such training. For example, I struggled cross cutting larger timber because I had never done it. Sometimes we ended up on yard days because of weather/cancellations whatever where there was the time for someone to show me but it never happened. I just got told to get on with it.

 

I've since left this company and subbed with a few others...I can now look back and say I think part of the reason for lack of training on the job was: the boss not pushing it to happen, time to get jobs done, the guys I was working with not having an awful lot of training either and also all of them not taking into account I was a part time member of staff. There's only so much experience you can gain part time, especially with people who are unwilling to offer advice/training. I now look back and see that I was often expected to know a lot of things without being shown/told etc. I think this company may have been quite lucky with me as I'm naturally very cautious (perhaps too much sometimes), I also tend to keep an eye on everyone I'm working with and I'm studying arb so had a fair amount of knowledge coming in from outside sources..if it had been someone else with a cocky attitude and a less cautious nature then things may have gone south. Toward the end I often found it was me training new staff members on use of the chipper and showing them the hand signals we used...not the gaffer or someone else on the team. 

 

I think there needs to be a real push within the industry for training after tickets. As I said I've since worked for a few other companies - I was very choosy who I worked for after leaving the aforementioned company, if they didn't sound like I'd get the training/advice I needed I didn't bother. - I now work with people who recognise I know what I'm doing (to a certain extend) and I have knowledge gained at college but they don't expect miracles. They give me a chance to learn new things whenever possible and they don't expect me to know everything. Likewise they offer plenty of tips and advice and don't make me feel stupid if I don't know something. 

 

Not being made to feel stupid I think is hugely important because if you're made to feel stupid at work you're going to ask less questions and do things just by assumption..which I'd say in our industry is pretty dangerous. I overheard a couple of my friends at college talking about a 16 year old kid they'd had in for his first day on the job. They were on about how hard they worked him and how he wasn't very strong. I just thought: ffs this is a 16 year old, what 16 year old is really strong? Unless they're some kind of bodybuilder?! Now that kid may end up feeling stupid and not ask questions where he should..

 

I also agree with whoever said working in the forest is good for those in Arb I had the opportunity to go into the forest just yesterday and that was some experience! Again with a decent guy who knows the experience would be good for me. He felled the big spruces and I snedded them. We don't deal with an awful lot of big trees in Arb so this was a big learning curve but damn it was a good one! Equally it was great to have someone there to give advice and ask questions of.

 

What I'm saying is I hope that this incident will push the industry to start taking training after tickets more seriously and also knock some of the bravado out - especially when it comes to dealing with those new to the industry.

 

Just my thoughts..

[carlos]

43 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

So you think no tree should be felled, unless there is nothing within falling distance in all directions?

 

 

er no! from what i remember in the video the top of that tree was all over the place in the wind and i think that the wind was side on to the direction of the fell thus rendering the pull line useless against the wind. so with the species, wind and targets i think a fell was a risky option imo ( im no master feller btw)

carl

[skyhuck]

17 minutes ago, WesD said:

Suppose that’s the key ingredient, seeing it in the flesh. What’s bugging me about it is someone made the effort to attach the rope high up why not attach it a bit higher and fell it in 3 or 4 sections. Your already there so to speak get a saw sent up and crack on. 

I would have put the rope up with a throw line.

 

Cut correctly I see no reason not to fell, especially with a pull line. Obviously dependent on the condition of the base.

 

 

[Mesterh]

I have section felled plenty of lombardys, wind is always a concern no matter how you dismantle them. Looking at the vid I would not have felled that tree as it was too windy. You would have had to have a proper winch facing more or less into the wind to pull it over.

[skyhuck]

6 minutes ago, Mesterh said:

I have section felled plenty of lombardys, wind is always a concern no matter how you dismantle them. Looking at the vid I would not have felled that tree as it was too windy. You would have had to have a proper winch facing more or less into the wind to pull it over.

Maybe.

 

If cut correctly you may have got it going 45degrees off target, not 90. A good thick hinge and a proper pull would have meant the hinge holding until it was going over.

 

IMO the way it goes is just shoddy cutting, IMO.

[carlos]

is the vid still around anywhere? 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

 

[slasherscot]

the pull rope should have nearer the top.  the rope should have been tensioned  so the heads of trees  are pulled over so  the weight of tree is leaning towards felling area,  my money is on the cutter cant get the tree over and has cut the hinge too thin or broke it with the wedges. Its not blowing that much, proper tension of the rope and a good thick hinge and it would have gone the right way .  end of the day they could  climbed it and sectioned it down in small managable peices to height that wont have endangered anybody