Making the news today....

[Big J]

8 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

I dont see a fundamental difference really. 

 

Those who can afford a £600k mortgage are already paying a huge amount in income tax. Not to mention the significant Stamp Duty owed on the purchase then the higher bands of council tax. Why on earth should they be tapped for even more? 

 

Yet when you get hit with a wee bit of tax on your Forwarder you go nuts.  

I would hardly say that £20k plus on an asset that was tax free until 8 months ago constitutes a wee bit of tax 😄

It's a difference of perspective here. I don't object to a free market economy, but it shouldn't be at the expense of public investment. The successive British governments have mismanaged and squandered colossal sums of money lining their own pockets of buying votes and as such we have a country where the concentration of wealth is in private property as opposed to public infrastructure. That imbalance is probably one of the main contributing factors to our low levels of productivity (when viewed in the European context). 

 

Compare our roads to the German autobahns. Our train network to just about anywhere in Europe. Our health sector to France. 

 

We just need concerted investment in bringing the lagging parts of the economy, society and the country into the 21st century. That's not communism. It's socially responsible capitalism.

[trigger_andy]

21 minutes ago, Big J said:

I would hardly say that £20k plus on an asset that was tax free until 8 months ago constitutes a wee bit of tax 😄

You might not think it’s wee bit of tax yet that seems to be exactly what you expect someone who owns a £600k house to fork out. They’d say the exact same thing as you. £20k on an asset (their house) that did not previously have such a tax on it. Surely you see the irony here? 

[Commando]

 
It's a rather philosophical question, I fear.
 
If we only do things that we see as being financially lucrative, we're fundamentally doomed 🤣 
 
We should be investing in our homes to make them better places to live, not because it makes us wealthier. I'd rather be in a house that is worth a lot less, but pay some of that excess money into the tax system so that the infrastructure, health care and schooling is better. 
 
You do notice the difference acutely between the UK and many European countries, in that we (as a nation) have a lot of amassed personal wealth. I say that insofar that individual properties can be sold for a lot of money, but all the infrastructure and services around them are terrible. 
 
I recall working down the bottom of a valley a few miles from Tiverton 2 years back. God awful little lane, pot holed to hell, both wingmirrors in the hedges are you drove it. No school, no pub, no services whatsoever. A 3-4 mile drive (at about 20mph max) to get to Tiverton, but forget it if it's icy. And then once you're into Tiverton, you're in a market town with some notable social issues. The high school has a permanent police officer there, for instance.
 
But despite this, the average house price on that postcode 2 years ago was about £658k. It feel that if the owners of these homes spent less on their mortgages and more in local taxes, the whole area would function better.

I think most of us that live in Devon and Cornwall like it just the way it is J, and that not just the “blow-ins, Grocks” etc. I got mates that manage to move big excavators etc around the counties just fine.
Have you thought about Cuba? I’ve heard that’s a nice socially balanced place to live?[emoji1]

[devon TWiG]

narrow roads aren't  too much of a problem as bloody low branches are !!😱   not me by the way !!!!

[Big J]

5 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

You might not think it’s wee bit of tax yet that seems to be exactly what you expect someone who owns a £600k house to fork out. They’d say the exact same thing as you. £20k on an asset (their house) that did not previously have such a tax on it. Surely you see the irony here? 

 

I don't think that the comparison is valid. I'm not suggesting taxing people's houses. Regarding my machine, the British government (who have perpetually claimed, contrary to the best evidence, that Brexit is a good thing) has imposed an export tariff on a machine that isn't even manufactured here. A 22% export tariff. 

 

5 minutes ago, Commando said:

I think most of us that live in Devon and Cornwall like it just the way it is J, and that not just the “blow-ins, Grocks” etc. I got mates that manage to move big excavators etc around the counties just fine.
Have you thought about Cuba? I’ve heard that’s a nice socially balanced place to live?

 

Nah, there is no defending the ridiculous lack of adequate transport infrastructure here. You can have perfectly beautiful places with lovely roads - take the Scottish Highlands. From home near Edinburgh to the pub in Kincraig (by Aviemore) always took 2hrs and 8 minutes, once the average speed cameras were installed on the A9. It was comical how precise it usually was. Except (it needs to be added) the one time in 30-40 where you're diverted off for an accident and then you lose a few hours.

 

It's all the bloody retirees who like the quaint insanity of the place that resist investment in the roads. The irony is that the traffic would be a lot less noticeable if the roads weren't so poor. Traffic only becomes an issue if it exceeds the operating capacity of the roads, and given that the average road here has a capacity best measured in horses and carts per hour, it's no wonder the place is jammed solid in summer 🤣

 

4 minutes ago, devon TWiG said:

narrow roads aren't  too much of a problem as bloody low branches are !!😱   not me by the way !!!!

 

I have two light bars on the forwarder being reattached at the moment, thanks to low hanging branches. It's very difficult to make a machine that's 12ft tall low enough for every branch when it's sat on a trailer.

[Khriss]

Pine martens return to the south of England

WWW.FORESTRYENGLAND.UK

---

Conservationists have confirmed that pine martens, a species previously only thought to have survived largely in the North of England, have established a population in the New Forest in...

 

Good ☺️ K

[trigger_andy]

41 minutes ago, Big J said:

I don't think that the comparison is valid. I'm not suggesting taxing people's houses. Regarding my machine, the British government (who have perpetually claimed, contrary to the best evidence, that Brexit is a good thing) has imposed an export tariff on a machine that isn't even manufactured here. A 22% export tariff. 

You might not be suggesting that the houses are taxed directly, but you might as well be considering you're suggesting that if they own such a home that they should pay even more tax than they already are. Id go as far to suggest its not beyond the realms of improbability that someone who is not of retirement age and owns such a house is paying more in tax a year (be it income tax, NI and council tax) than you contribute in 5. You're suggesting that they pay even more so that you can have an easier day driving around in your road blocking machinery.  Perhaps its the likes of yourself that should be forced into funding the betterment of the local infrastructure and not those who are already heavily burdened with tax? 

 

A 22% export tariff would go someway to help.  

[Big J]

22 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

You might not be suggesting that the houses are taxed directly, but you might as well be considering you're suggesting that if they own such a home that they should pay even more tax than they already are. Id go as far to suggest its not beyond the realms of improbability that someone who is not of retirement age and owns such a house is paying more in tax a year (be it income tax, NI and council tax) than you contribute in 5. You're suggesting that they pay even more so that you can have an easier day driving around in your road blocking machinery.  Perhaps its the likes of yourself that should be forced into funding the betterment of the local infrastructure and not those who are already heavily burdened with tax? 

 

A 22% export tariff would go someway to help.  

 

I don't drive around in my road blocking machinery It occasionally gets transported from site to site. It's not a road going machine.

 

You're just being intentionally difficult now. You know as well as I do that a 22% export tariff with zero import tariff puts every single second hand machine owner in the unenviable position of having a machine which can only really be sold in one country. Previously, it would have cost nothing to export it, other than the logistical costs. 

 

I pay rather more tax than I'd like, and collect a crap load of VAT for the government (in particular). I say that I pay more tax than I'd like, because I don't feel that I get much in return for it. 

 

A tax on accrued wealth isn't necessarily a bad thing. The property market is buoyed up by quantitative easing and artificially low interest rates. The money isn't even really real. It's just numbers on a piece of paper. At least a machine has a material cost of construction and a retail price that reflects that. The price of property in the UK does not reflect the production cost, only the market demand with the demand being dictated by a series of concessions that serve only to prop up the market. 

 

Either way, I feel confident in saying that:

 

a) houses are far too expensive in the UK (terribly built and too small too)

b) our national infrastructure isn't fit for purpose. Friends of ours returning to Northampton the other day took 5hrs to drive from Newton Abbott to Bristol, nominally a 1hr 40min journey. This is standard fayre for the M5 in summer.

c) Brexit is having a great many negative effects on a great many businesses and individuals, with almost nothing positive thus far.

[trigger_andy]

8 minutes ago, Big J said:

You're just being intentionally difficult now. You know as well as I do that a 22% export tariff with zero import tariff puts every single second hand machine owner in the unenviable position of having a machine which can only really be sold in one country. Previously, it would have cost nothing to export it, other than the logistical costs. 

Its not fair I know, but in my opinion suggesting someone who owns a £600k house should pay even more tax, when they are already taxed to the hilt is not fair either. 

 

8 minutes ago, Big J said:

I pay rather more tax than I'd like, and collect a crap load of VAT for the government (in particular). I say that I pay more tax than I'd like, because I don't feel that I get much in return for it. 

I pay over £40k in tax to Norway a year, I can assure you I receive far less in return for it.  

 

8 minutes ago, Big J said:

A tax on accrued wealth isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Yes it is.

 

Coming from someone bitching about paying 22% to export a machine that you've already paid for is a bit rich. 

 

Lets just rebrand the export tax to something you feel others (but clearly not yourself) should pay and we'll all be happy campers. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by trigger_andy

[Big J]

2 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Its not fair I know, but in my opinion suggesting someone who owns a £600k house should pay even more tax, when they are already taxed to the hilt is not fair either. 

 

I pay over £40k in tax to Norway a year, I can assure you I receive far less in return for it.  

 

Yes it is.

 

Coming from someone bitching about paying 22% to export a machine that you've already paid for is a bit rich. 

 

Lets just rebrand the export tax to something you feel others (but clearly not yourself) should pay and we'll all be happy campers. 

 

 

 

 

A machine isn't accrued wealth though. It's just a tool. It's depreciated since I've bought it (a bit) but the addition of an export tax means that if I want to sell it abroad, I suddenly have to fork out an additional £20k. That is patently daft.

 

Also, there isn't a £600k house in the UK that is actually worth £600k. The cost of construction is no where near that. All I'm suggesting (and I am no expert in the field) is that there needs to be some thought given on how to make the property market more accurately reflect the cost of construction. Obviously, there will always been more and less desirable places to move to, but the situation is presently unsustainable. For instance, three years back, my brother and his wife bought their first home in Exeter. A very, very small three bed detached house, but it ticks the boxes. It's presently £355k if you buy it new in Exeter, up from £305k when they bought it. It's £235k in Northumberland. The exact same house. There isn't that difference in the cost of the land, and frankly, £235k is still about £80k too much for it, given that the cost of construction is less than £100k.

 

It's difficult for you to appreciate (I feel) because you have a substantial house in a relatively inexpensive part of the UK. The affordability (especially considering your line of work) is good. It isn't so peachy for the rest of us though. Down here, property prices are at least 50% higher, but the salaries are infact amongst the worst in the country.