Making the news today....

[Mike Hill]

8 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

so if Hamas hadn't raped the women and girls to death 'only' murdered 1200, then the Israelis response would have been more proportionate?

 

Where would you say the line between proportionate/ disproportionate revenge for mass rape and murder lies?

[Mick Dempsey]

23 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

 

Where would you say the line between proportionate/ disproportionate revenge for mass rape and murder lies?

That’s the nub of it. 

[tree-fancier123]

21 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

 

Where would you say the line between proportionate/ disproportionate revenge for mass rape and murder lies?

Anything short of genocide would have helped, but no the Israelis got the US election result and now they are seemingly free from any chance of prosecution. The International Criminal Court may as well not exist.

So maybe in this brave new Trumpian world a proportionate Israeli response is the destruction exactly all the homes of the two million Gazans and the killing of as many as possible.

 

[Johnsond]

55 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

so if Hamas hadn't raped the women and girls to death 'only' murdered 1200, then the Israelis response would have been more proportionate?

“ Only” 

 

[Whoppa Choppa]

8 hours ago, Mark J said:

Overdue an education in the middle east methinks. Go and live in Israel and Gaza / West Bank. Please. The spoon feeding has brainwashed you.

[Mike Hill]

3 minutes ago, Whoppa Choppa said:

Overdue an education in the middle east methinks. Go and live in Israel and Gaza / West Bank. Please. The spoon feeding has brainwashed you.

 

1 hour ago, tree-fancier123 said:

Anything short of genocide would have helped, but no the Israelis got the US election result and now they are seemingly free from any chance of prosecution. The International Criminal Court may as well not exist.

So maybe in this brave new Trumpian world a proportionate Israeli response is the destruction exactly all the homes of the two million Gazans and the killing of as many as possible.

 

Conspiracy theory much?

 

I would say the Israeli response could be called " Biblical ",fitting when you think about it.

[Steven P]

4 hours ago, Johnsond said:

Criminal conviction ? 

 

Many criminal rape cases, in the UK, and worldwide, fail due to a lack of evidence - often the process of having evidence 'collected' is a trauma that at the time the victim just cannot handle (and it is a trauma to the victims). It is not like a burglary where the victim can be someplace else, they have to be there and relive every moment of it again. This is not a fault of the victim, it is a fault that there is no other way to collect evidence.  Often the victim does not want to go to court to relive the attack again, again, not their fault to want to avoid meeting their attacker face to face again and relive the attack in minute detail twice (prosecution and defence, and defence lawyers can be brutal). So something like 1/3 (a very small proportion of cases) get enough of a case to go to court.

 

Most rape cases do not reach court. No criminal conviction does not mean innocence.

 

In the case of Trump / Carrol - like many rape cases the victim is only strong enough to go to court many years later when a criminal conviction is unlikely. Trump was defaming Carrol, gave her the strength to bring a civil prosecution, for which the judge summed up as noted above.

 

Many years later - look at the celebrity cases where one person steps forward and suddenly a lot of victims step forward (Epsteins case is an example here). 'I am not alone in this' can give a strength that the victim needs to seek justice.

 

So when you say 'Criminal conviction', I assume you write that from a position of ignorance.

 

 

3 hours ago, Johnsond said:

I’m not interested if he was wonderful man or not. 

 

You sure go out your way to defend him and all his actions though, and are blinded to all his crimes. If you don't care for him, why is that then?

[Steven P]

3 hours ago, tree-fancier123 said:

so if Hamas hadn't raped the women and girls to death 'only' murdered 1200, then the Israelis response would have been more proportionate?

 

1200 deaths - killing just over 56,000 in revenge is well justified. Probably need to double that, 10:1 I reckon sounds about right?

 

Even better than all the children who have lost parents are orphaned, and traumatised to hating Israel for ever - what a brilliant way to create a never ending war than creating the next generation of recruits to fight against.

[Johnsond]

6 minutes ago, Steven P said:

 

Many criminal rape cases, in the UK, and worldwide, fail due to a lack of evidence - often the process of having evidence 'collected' is a trauma that at the time the victim just cannot handle (and it is a trauma to the victims). It is not like a burglary where the victim can be someplace else, they have to be there and relive every moment of it again. This is not a fault of the victim, it is a fault that there is no other way to collect evidence.  Often the victim does not want to go to court to relive the attack again, again, not their fault to want to avoid meeting their attacker face to face again and relive the attack in minute detail twice (prosecution and defence, and defence lawyers can be brutal). So something like 1/3 (a very small proportion of cases) get enough of a case to go to court.

 

Most rape cases do not reach court. No criminal conviction does not mean innocence.

 

In the case of Trump / Carrol - like many rape cases the victim is only strong enough to go to court many years later when a criminal conviction is unlikely. Trump was defaming Carrol, gave her the strength to bring a civil prosecution, for which the judge summed up as noted above.

 

Many years later - look at the celebrity cases where one person steps forward and suddenly a lot of victims step forward (Epsteins case is an example here). 'I am not alone in this' can give a strength that the victim needs to seek justice.

 

So when you say 'Criminal conviction', I assume you write that from a position of ignorance.

 

 

 

You sure go out your way to defend him and all his actions though, and are blinded to all his crimes. If you don't care for him, why is that then?

SP legal expert now eh, anyway blagger is back on his two favourite topics Trump and Rape( unless it’s Pakistani Muslim gangs or Hamas of course) 

Anyway seeing as you are here again and seemingly in a talkative mood any chance you can tidy up those loose ends on other threads Blagger. 

[Johnsond]

1 hour ago, Steven P said:

You sure go out your way to defend him and all his actions though

Where did I do this Blagger  ?? 
I didn’t elect him you sad bugger, he’s the president of a different country not here. 
Whilst you are obsessing over Trump I’ve had a decent steady  afternoon, picked a bit of local fruit, decent bite to eat, at no time did Trump cross my mind. You should try it. 

Edited June 29 by Johnsond